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Post by MaggiesMom on Feb 14, 2004 0:37:56 GMT -5
Hello all.
We're still trying to get an IEP with the school. We got snowed out this week, so they say "maybe, we can try again in two weeks!" Don't you love schools?!
The one thing they are pushing now is for Maggie to have a psychological test done. They say that it's more appropraite for her since she is hearing impaired as well as having DS.
I can tell you that that goofy Brigansk (sp?) test was not appropriate. It was language based and had very poor pictures that had to be from the 50's.
Can anyone tell me why I would want to have one done? What benefit it would be to Maggie? And/or if they have had negative experiences with them.
Thanks!
Robin M - Maggie's mom
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Post by MichelleW on Feb 14, 2004 15:43:28 GMT -5
If you know the name of the psychological test they are recommending, I can probably give you information on it. Meanwhile, you can (and should) ask them specifically what they expect to learn from the test.
Michelle W in California
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Post by rickismom on Feb 14, 2004 16:19:34 GMT -5
First, isn't it amazing that half the school year can go by without an iep? I know that Fuerstein (who has been mentioned here before), says that regular IQ tests and pyschological exams are not appropriate for our children..... I would truly ask what they want to learn. What is much more important is HOW she learns- ie, the best ways to reach her.
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Post by MaggiesMom on Feb 14, 2004 20:45:31 GMT -5
The letter I received listed two tests:
The Mullen Scales of Early Learning. It says that it is used to assess Gross Motor, Visual Preception, Fine Motor, Expressive Language, and Receptive Language.
The Leiter International-Revised (Leiter-R) is listed as a measure of Cognitive development and Memory.
The SPED Director said that these tests would tell us what therapies etc. are appropriate.
I'm all ears if you all have any further information.
Thanks!
Robin M - Maggie's Mom
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Post by AnnieC on Feb 15, 2004 8:01:56 GMT -5
Raven has had some testing done this past summer, but it was for an additonal dx. I'll have to look up which tests, because I don't remember offhand. Raven is nonverbal & the psychologist did say that most tests were verbally oriented, so she was not able to determine exactly Raven's cognitive ability. She did put that in her report as well. We are entering the school system next year (Kindy) & the pyschologist there is willing to use the results from the testing last summer so they do not have to restest her. From what I understand, they are using it to determine the appropriate therapies. This is fine with me, but I do know that a lot depends on the school district you are in. I've heard good & bad about testing, but I think it really depends on your philosophies, the goal of the testing, & the school district who is using them. I know that doesn't help too much. I personally do not have a problem with testing as long as it won't prevent our children from anything & it is used to help them. But, we don't live in a perfect world!!! Good luck!
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Post by PaigesMom on Feb 15, 2004 8:27:25 GMT -5
Hi Robin - We just went through this with Paige before she transitioned from home based therapies to IU preschool. I'm not sure where you live, but I can tell you what happens in PA. The psychological tests themselves are not really "accurate" in our kids until they are about 5-6 years old because you can not really get an IQ score on a child that young. Scores under 70 are considered to be MR, scores above 70 are not considered to be MR. It's a catch 22 - the testing is required for kindergarten here and THEY DO use it for placement purposes (ie. just another piece of ammunition the school districts can use against you for placement purposes - like if you are considering mainstreaming), but for now, at age 3, the only thing it does in PA is give you access to what is called Family Driven Services - approval for respite care, activities you may not be able to afford, etc. Once it is in their record, it is in their record. We opted to get the testing done so I would be eligible to get her horseback riding - she came up with an IQ score of 71 so now we're not eligible for anything and we have a non MR IQ score in her record - they say she functions on the level of a 2 1/2 year old and she's 3 1/2 - Wouldn't you think that is MR in itself? They say no, because of her age. The caseworker says "dont worry, she wont be that when she's 5 or 6" - its bittersweet, you know, you want to be eligible for services but you want them to be high functioning at the same time!! So I would say, check your local laws and what services you have/want to have and go from there. I still question my decision on having it done. Not really a big help, huh Debbie
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Post by YoshsMom on Feb 15, 2004 11:39:03 GMT -5
Unless the testing is done in a familiar setting by someone your child knows its preety much a waste of time.
Think about it, their putting a little kid into a strange room with a strange person, asking them to do things, some of which they've never done before. From this they expect to learn what your child is like and is able to do. It just doesn't make sense. The best way to evaluate a child for school is to ask the people who know him/her, parents and therapists, not some evaluator who sees the kid for an hour or two. They don't take into account the fact that the kid might be scared, shy, overexcited, or just plain grumpy that day.
Bottom line, get copies of all reports on your child and read them carefully. And read IEP's carefully before you sign. Don't let your child end up with goals they've already accomplished or things they're not ready for. You know your child better than the "experts". I can't tell you how many times I would read a report about a new student and wonder who the heck they were talking about.
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Post by stefflipton on Feb 15, 2004 15:41:52 GMT -5
Olivia gets a psych eval every IEP assessment.She had one at 3 and one at 6.There was NEVER any IQ testing. I will tell you they did the written parent and teacher reports and the psych observed Liv. No BIG deal. I happen to have the tests they used for Liv cause her teacher requested to see them after she made me sign a paper saying that I was willing to release them. PSYCH tests are CONFIDENTIAL here in CALI. If someone requests em you have to have parent permission for anyone else to see em. They used the following procedures as components of the evaluation.... behavior assessment system for children(BASC) health screening interviews with parent/student teacher(s) review of school records Vineland adaptive behavior scales(interview and classroom editions
Really I believe that some would be different for Maggie cause she is 3 instead of 6.
never heard of having to do an IQ test in california.Don't know that I would want that on Olivias record cause I am not quite sure it would really indicate Olivias true intelligence.Ya know .I can't BELIEVE someone with ds would NOT qualify for a service due to IQ test results that should NOT NOT NOT have to be done...I am curious to hear if this is a law in your state(who said this I am sorry my memory lol those crazy teenage years)
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Post by AnnieC on Feb 15, 2004 16:24:54 GMT -5
I forgot to add in my earlier post .......Raven did not have an IQ test done. Her testing was over 3-4 days, a couple of hours each time, at our home. She was observed, tested & I was interviewed. Her school psychologist has been observing her at school at least 2x. I read all of her reports & really felt they were accurate. I think a lot depends on so may variables...the psychologist, the goals of testing, & the school district.
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Post by Pat on Feb 15, 2004 18:41:56 GMT -5
I was going to say the same as Debbie. Here in PA you can be eligible for money for certain things. I learned about it when John-John was 3. The Childrens Hospital of PA tests until they are 3 (are they no longer children when they hit 3?), the IU doesn't doesn't do the correct ones, the school district doesn't do it until he is registered and in school (he won't be, I homeschool my children) and the one hospital I called didn't have an appt. for about 3 mths. and suggested I call another hosp. So, I have not had John-John tested yet. Of course, I don't get money for things until I do. He is now 4 1/2. I admit there is something in me that never wants to see MR and my son's name in the same sentence. I know it's stupid of me BUT... Well, I'm rambling...what I'm trying to say is if you can get some funding out of it, go for it.
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Post by donnita on Feb 15, 2004 21:10:05 GMT -5
It really all depends on the therapist and/or school system. My mother is a school psychologist and does a GREAT job with the kids she tests. However, she does not get to test the pre-schoolers, another lady who has worked there longer does all the pre-school testing. My mom would love to do it, as she was a pre-school teacher at a school just for kids with disabilities for 15 years before switching to school psychology.
Good luck!
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Post by Debi on Feb 16, 2004 20:58:25 GMT -5
Well, I was gonna say what Yosh's Mom said but she said it better and quicker. I am sure there are some very good school testers out there ; I just havent' seen any evidence of it personally. Any of the psych. tests Gabe has had consists of a total stranger coming in for all of 20 minutes and then pronouncing something earthshaking like this kid is delayed. I am sorry I just do NOT get into IQ's I do NOT understand how someone can have an IQ of 70 and be labeled MR and another can have one of 7l and NOT be labeled MR. I would think things like life skills.. speech etc would have a LOT more to do with it. Well, this isn't meant to be a rant, honest, but for Maggie I would look at her "portfolio" if you will.. all her records and progress reports, etc.
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Post by Debbie on Feb 17, 2004 17:15:51 GMT -5
Kerri,
Boy are you right! You have such an understanding and you don't have Down syndrome. You must be empathetic. You are so right on the mark on this.
I was always nervous when it came to testing and I didn't know if I did well or not mainly because it was so long ago and that I was timed on almost every test. I didn't like that because I am slower on figuring things out. I can't think very well when it comes down to someone timing me and watching me as I work. I feel the pressure to do it quick and do it well. I might have tested differently if I did know the person and was comfortable.
I was tested once at being 72 or 73 on an IQ test. This was a long, long, time ago. Who knows what it would be now.
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Post by Robin on Feb 17, 2004 18:46:51 GMT -5
Robin.... (hey did I even mention what a beautiful name you have, LOL?) here in Michigan the school has to supply the pych to do the test... not you. If i was you I would tell them to set it up and you will hav her there. Anything they ask for they have to provide. Hope it is the same way in your state hugs, Robin
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Post by MichelleW on Feb 19, 2004 13:56:09 GMT -5
The Mullen I haven't heard of, but it sounds like it is measuring appropriate areas. Ask the district for the validity and reliability scores for the Mullen (this will tell you if the test measures what it's supposed to measure in repeated applications). I can't see much problem in letting them do this test if it is valid and reliable.
The Leiter is one of the better IQ tests, but I don't advocate IQ tests for children with Down syndrome. As other posters noted, they might test above 70 and lose services; the test doesn't really measure the child's ability to succeed (my district wanted to " dumb down" Rachel's program because she scored 55, even though everyone who knows her comments on how bright she is); testing in very young children is not particularly accurate anyway; and it goes in the permanent record. It won't tell you anything about needed therapies, only about IQ. Any qualified special ed teacher or resource specialist will be able to determine within a month what level of materials your child can handle. You might ask the district to try this first and you will reconsider the Leiter if necessary.
Good luck,
Michelle W
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