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Post by christie on May 28, 2004 22:24:06 GMT -5
THANKS ALL sooo much for you responses. Its nice to know I am not alone on my thinking
CC
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Post by AnnieC on May 29, 2004 10:22:35 GMT -5
I have done so much soul searching with Raven & coming to terms with all of her abilities. I love her so much. It has really been hard for me to be a part of this site. But, I feel this site has really helped me grow & be able to accept Raven that much more. Because of this site, I was able to really figure out some things about Raven, that I might not of picked up on. I have always had that statement in my head.... "they will do everything a typical child does, but just later". It got me thru the 1st couple of years of her life. It also made me realize that maybe she had other issues going on with her, when she wasn't following this pattern at all. Turns out she did, she is autistic as well. This throws a whole different wrench into her development. But, we were able to reevaluate how we were teaching her, take a couple of steps back & reassess the programs. This year has been tremendous for her at school. It is the first year, I feel she has progressed thru school, she is actually trying to communicate with us. She is participating, playing with toys, trying to drink from a straw. All of this was impossible last year, you couldn't even get anything in front of her without her throwing it or turning away. I can actually see her being able to do some things I couldn't imagine a year ago. It has been a good year! I do love hearing everyone's stories too, which is why I am always lurking My feelings on therapy are that, it is a way for parents to get the support they need & a knowledge base. Don't get me wrong, I think the stimulation & consistency are very important, but I do think when our children are ready to do things they will. I've had Raven in physical therapy since she was 6 weeks old....private & school. She is just now learning to walk & she'll be 6 in July. She has all the tools, enough muscle strength (& by golly she had to work on each muscle group separately...lol), but she just won't let go. Now it comes down to confidence......how do you teach that? It has to come within her....she has to be ready. We walk her tail end off ALL the time, she holds on to my little finger, barely, she just won't let go. That is Raven & I love her for that. Nothing comes easy with her, but when she does it, it is oh so sweet. Sorry this is so long, I guess I just needed to say it, I know it may be a bit off topic, but thanks for letting me get it out
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Post by ooginal on May 29, 2004 12:08:54 GMT -5
In reality, we can't truly know any child's limitations, especially a child with DS. The brain is made of millions of circuits and some circuits work well and some don't work at all. Some struggle with math while others can baffle brilliant people with their math genius...Our strengths, our gifts, our limitations hinge on how well these circuits work... I am scared for children, especially DS children that have parents that think if I push and push my child, they will overcome their limitations....They will learn and be able to do a task simply because I want them to...... It's very hard to push and push your child and not show disappointment or frustration, even anger along the way.... When this occurs, they feel non-acceptance and they don't feel loved. These kind of parents can make life very difficult for that child, perhaps emotionally painful, during that path of parental molding. I have seen DS children that grew to adulthood that could work circles around their fellow non-DS coworkers... They were pushed and pushed and pushed for twenty or so years to be - All That They Could Be.... They were hardly happy people like so many with DS are... What good is it if your child exceeded those unknown limitations, rose to heights that few DS people will ever know, but couldn't look back and say passionately "My Momma and Daddy loved me - above all things in this life, I was loved... Parents can't really change who they are...If they are those type that push - they will continue to push.... Some may not care if their child was happy and felt loved - knew they were loved....Just so long as they found a good slot in the workforce and lived an independent life... Some will equate all of the pushing they do to love....How many times their child smiled or how often the child felt loved doesn't matter....This type of child raising scares me to death....
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Post by rickismom on May 29, 2004 18:00:25 GMT -5
I want to add a few points: First, therapy is not just to help your child learn things earlier. It is imperative that parents know that THERAPY IS DONE SO THAT THE CHILD LEARNS THINGS, AND IN THE CCOORRRREECCTT CORRECT WAY- OTHERWISW THEY MAY SIT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN WHAT IS AN EASIER WAY, BUT THAT WILL LIMIT THEIR LATER DEVELOPEMENT Two, pushing your child does not mean loving them less , nor acceppting them less. I "push" Ricki, by giving her opportunities to learn many things- but NOWHERE is she given a message of our loving her any less if she doesn't succeeed.....
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Post by ooginal on May 29, 2004 19:58:00 GMT -5
I knew a step-mother of child with DS who, would tear a bed apart after the boy made it. She would keep unmaking the bed each time he made it. Sometimes, this went on for hours. He might make the bed 15 times in one morning. She wanted it CCOORRRREECCTT.... Can he make a bed today? You betcha!!!! Is he scarred and haunted by that woman...YOU BETCHA !!!!! Did he feel loved by that woman - never, not even on a good day....She's dead now...Been dead a few years... natural causes by the way.... But she, with an iron fist, would make sure things were done the right way, the CCOORRRREECCTT WAY.... God has given us this child and TIME to train them. At home, they should be taught like they are in a special ed school. PATIENTLY & RESPECTFULLY, NEVER EXPECTING LOTS OF PROGRESS IN ANY ONE GIVEN DAY... the progress comes, but it comes slowly. Some parents won't accept slowly... They will demand as much from their DS child as they do from their other children... If a parent has disciplinarian tendencies, they will be a disciplinarian EVEN with their DS child....
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Post by christie on May 29, 2004 23:46:15 GMT -5
ANNIE C. I have my own personal therary on DS and therapies and such, I can only go by little "Character" who now is 11 years old. But this is what I have found, yes therapies are good for our kids, not the end all but most defiantely add to the quality. Chirs thrives in the gross motor area and has since the get go and the PT has just helped make it better and better ;D Speech is his true area of struggle Since the get go Chris has had more speech thearpy then most and still to this day struggles in this area BUT I do see inprovements and thats ALL I can ask or hope for "inprovements" and I tell you in all honestly the inprovements seems to be on his timing ONLY K, back to my theary, LOL I think that some kids will just do great in speech,gross motor, and or fine motor BUT I have yet to see or hear of one with DS that does GREAT in all areas with or without intense therapy. BUT I have heard of ones that do GREAT in a certain area, do even better with the extra help just as some will do well in the gross motor or fine motor. You KWIM?? I really do see kids with DS excelling in one area more then another and it almost seems to me nooo matter what one does for them it just comes in its own time Then when it comes I really think the thearpy pays off big time Hope my ramblings here are making sense. My original reason for this thread was because I have read over and over people saying our kids can do the same as all just will take time, Hmmmm and not to be negative here BUT Hmmmmm, I find that misleading. Yes you will find an example of someone with DS that may have gotten married and was successful or one or two with DS that did something outstanding that most with DS or some even without DS don't do BUT the fact remains, least in my thinking that DS causes limitations and so what? I think its OK to say that OUT LOUD and to deny that would be a disservice to our kids. Just my thoughts. YES I say shoot for the stars, I still do, BUT I also have no problem saying my son has DS and is in special education. Geez if he was like any other child I woudn't even be here at this site posting Miss your posts girl, hope you post up more, you have tons to offer us all About the Mom that was the bed making Sargent (sp?) Alls I can say is YIKES, how sad is that CC
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Post by jennanne on May 30, 2004 9:07:45 GMT -5
-My original reason for this thread was because I have read over and over people saying our kids can do the same as all just will take time, Hmmmm and not to be negative here BUT Hmmmmm, I find that misleading.-
I am so glad you said that!!! I have never been under the impression that Matthew will be able to do all the things his brother and sister do. I mean how is that possible when he has an well below normal IQ? He is mentally impaired. Not to say that I don't expect him or want him to do his best.
From my understanding DS kid are just "slower" than typical kids up to a point but then start fall more and more behind. To say that your 3 year old DS kid is on point or even excelling in developement now is great but chances are they will start falling behind in years to come.
I love my son unconditionally but I am a realistic person. I encourage him the best I know how. I have expectations for him as I do with my other children but if he falls short so be it. i will always love and accept Matthew for WHO he is not WHAT he does.
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Post by rickismom on May 30, 2004 9:52:53 GMT -5
Look, there is no doubt in my mind that therapies help. And a BIT of pushing helps. ( Like yesterday when Ricki pushed (O.K., nudged ) me and said "um-opom- grr". which means nothing to me, not in English, and not even in Hebrew ((Ricki's language). I knew that she was very upset (I was impossing a rule that visiting babies-nephews included- are not Barbie Dolls LOL). So I looked at her, and said (in Hebrew) "Ricki, I don't understand what "um-opom- grr" means. If you want to tell me something, you'll have to speek words" So you know, she said right away a whole sentence....! One can push gently- and the best way, I think, is the way proffessor Fuerstein advocates-activly looking for those opportunities all around us in our child's life, looking for those things that interest him, and building from there. As for the bed- maker, I bet that she did it with her "normal" kids as well.... By the way, I think that the REAL difference between our kids and others, is the unpredictability. You can have a kid who reads, writes, and lots of other great thiings, and then out of the blue they can do something SO outrageous, SO stupid, and SO unexpected, that it can be truely exasperaring. And hallarious! I confess to have muttered under my breath once or twice (and in English that she DOES NOT understand) "Kid, you're not THAT R____ ..... " (OK, you can hang me for the R word.. ) But this thing is because you have to teach ALL the ramifications of new material, and ALL applications- they often don't draw inferences from one thing to another as well as "normal" kids. And often I see that Ricki acts impulsively, without thinking, even in situations that she basically know what to do, but I quess not often enough yet.
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Post by Ericsmomma on May 30, 2004 10:36:02 GMT -5
Christie, Thanks for starting such a great conversation....I have never believed the statement that kids with ds just do things "later" than their peers. Don't get me wrong, I totally believe we should give our children the opportunity to be the best they can be, but there are some things they will not be able to accomplish, no matter how hard they try. I learned this with my oldest son, Matt, who has a severe learning disablity. Matt's weakness is reading and writing, and no matter what they did, he just couldn't grasp it. He can read at about a 4th grade level, and his writing skills are very delayed, but hey, he gets by. His strengths are his gross motor skills...very good athlete (played basketball and baseball) and his social skills. He has oodles of friends, girlfriend, an was Prom Prince of his Jr. class. I never "pushed" him beyond his limits, and just supported him and gave him alot of love and attention. And I think it payed off. I plan on doing the same thing with Eric. Accept his limitations, and concentrated on his strengths. But not to where its overbearing. The most important thing to me is to let him be a "kid". And if that means taking a break from early intervention or therapy, then thats what we do. Thanks again for your thoughts....Dolly
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