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Post by logansmom on Oct 9, 2005 20:17:03 GMT -5
Sorry I haven't been around much . . . things are crazy with a newborn and a 2 1/2 year old. I have a question about discipline and I hope everyone can offer suggestions.
Logan (2 1/2 with Down syndrome) LOVES to tip over the kitchen chairs. It's driving us crazy. I don't think it's a response to having a newborn (Carson is 4 weeks old) because it started happening before Carson was born. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for it . . . he'll do it every time he has a chance.
We've tried telling him "no," and he responds by signing no and saying "ohh" . . . but he's still tipping the chair as he does this.
He doesn't follow any two-step directions yet, and doesn't follow many one-step directions either. Although I don't know how much language he comprehends, I have to believe that he knows he shouldn't be doing this. He seems to have a pretty good memory and knows about 35 different signs (but he rarely initiates using them).
Logan is our first child . . . perhaps this is part of "being 2?" At any rate, we need to come up with some strategies. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Kim, Logan, and Carson
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Post by CC on Oct 9, 2005 23:23:51 GMT -5
CONGRATULATIONS
on the new addition to your family aka CARSON ;D ;D As for the chair flipping Hmmmm just brainstorming here, take what you like and forget the rest ~ How about time out when Logan does this ~ How about making him pick the chair up and put back nicely ~ How about leaving the chairs down on the floor Hmmm maybe when he walks by he will flip them up then, Hmmm LOL Hey it might work ~ What does Logan love the most?? How about taking that away from him when he does this with the chairs ~ K, this is far out there BUT how about hooking the chairs up somehow so that when he tries they won't flip over and maybe he will soon get tired of trying Thats about all I have for now BUT I am sure many here will have great ideas for you. Best of Luck CC ~
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Post by meghans_mom on Oct 10, 2005 7:24:54 GMT -5
Congratulations on the new baby!
We had the same problem...or something similar (funny I can't remember now what it was) but we simply removed all of the kitchen chairs from the kitchen. We left them in the dining room which MM couldn't get into because of the gate. YES it was a pain because we had to carry the chairs into the room each night at dinner but it was better than continualy having to deal with the chair issue. I kept an ottoman under the kitchen table so I could pull it out & have somewhere to sit, Meghan must've still been in the high chair at the time.
Your son may be responding to all the attention he is getting from knocking down the chairs...
If removing the chairs is impossible - do one of 2 things. Every time he knocks down a chair, DO NOT REACT, no facial expression, no talking. Pick up the chair and remove your son - put him in a time out for 2 minutes. When he is out of time out, get down on his level - eye to eye, and explain (simply) that we don't knock down chairs, we sit in them. Someone could get a big boo boo if the chair hit them.
CC's suggestion (making him pick up the chairs) is good too...that unfortunately never works with my kids!
BTW - Meghan was just under 2 1/2 when Matthew was born...it has been wonderful...yes, alot of work - but they get along really really well...for us, it was the perfect age difference!
good luck - laurie
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Post by Kristen on Oct 10, 2005 12:16:20 GMT -5
I bet it's part of being 2. We are big on time outs around here, so I would try that like Laurie suggested.
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Post by laurasnowbird on Oct 10, 2005 13:57:05 GMT -5
We would do what Laurie suggested, but at the end of the time-out, Ethan would be required to put the chair back in the proper position (with help, hand over hand if necessary)
My little guy was in quite a throwing stage for a while. If it was on the high chair tray, it went flying off! It only took a couple of days to make him quit when we consistently interrupted his meal, and made him get down and get whatever he tossed. Now he wasn't agreeable to this in the beginning, so we had to hold his hands, walk over there, bend him over, pick up the item in his hand, and take it back and put it on the tray. You get the picture - he's stubborn. When he realized that, as I put it, "I'm bigger than you, I'm stronger than you, and I'm the mom. If I say you're going to pick it up, you're going to pick it up!" Then he quit fighting and within a couple of days, quit throwing.
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Post by ALLISA on Oct 10, 2005 18:06:43 GMT -5
I, too have a tipper !!! It does seem to diminish with age....her teachers alway said it was a sensory thing....she LOVED hearing the SMACK when the chair hit the floor.....it drove me nuts....she BROKE one of my dinign room chairs.....she flipped it 2 times...the first cracked it and I was shocked, the next time it hit exactly right and broke... bear in mind we are talking aobut a little girl who didn't even wigh 25 pounds at the time .....ssiiiigghhhhhhhh If it is a sensory thing.....be sure to try and give them any input they need so they don't go looking for it....we do the brushing and joint compressions.
Beyond the REASON for the tipping....lies your question....discipline......I agree in making her pick up the chair....traditional timeouts don't work for us....I hold Erin's hands in front of her and make her stand....that is our version of timeout. Removing the chairs wouldn't have helped for us because when she is in that "mode" she'll tip ANYTHING and if there is nothing to tip....she'd be throwing....and if nothing to throw....then she'd bang her head. After re=reading my post, I see I have offered you very little ! LOL.....but I do empathize with you, because I know what it's like !!! Allisa
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Post by Radonna on Oct 10, 2005 18:37:10 GMT -5
Kim, I have 2 chair tippers my 2 year old and my oldest Kaden (Ds) Kaden's teachers have tried for years to keep him from tipping chairs in the class. Finally they tried to outsmart him so they tipped all the chairs over before he could. Kaden came into the room and looked at all the chairs on the floor. He scratched his head and stomped his foot and then went and sat a couple of the chairs up and the tipped them himself.
Radonna
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Post by MB on Oct 10, 2005 22:01:06 GMT -5
My son, who is 14, has given my some insights lately. He did not tip chairs, but he did close doors, constantly. I think there is an OCD or sensory issue in all of our kids. My son told me the other day that when he has his own apartment, the microwave door will never be left open and there will be no time left on the timer. Whenever he goes by the microwave he checks and zeroes out the time if needed.
He was very matter of fact about telling me that the open door and leftover time bothered him and that is why he always checks when he goes in the kitchen. It was as if he was saying, "I know this doesn't make sense, but I need to do it anyway. Hope you don't mind."
In grade school he started knotting the laces on his tennis shoes. He was compulsive about it. The paras wanted to take his shoes from him. Knowing what I know now, I would have insisted that they let him roll his laces. His shoes go with him wherever he goes and they are a built in source of comfort and calming.
With the beauty of the internet, this generation of kids with Ds are going to be so much better off as we trade information. Some of the quirky behavior, I think, is going to turn out to be traits of Ds rather than behaviors that need to be changed.
Am I making myself clear?
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Post by Jessie on Oct 11, 2005 9:27:03 GMT -5
Brian just informed me that Jason went through this stage too when he was that age. I've realized that their "quirky" behavior is somewhat phase-oriented too. When there is a new "bad" behavior that Jason picks up, we do try to make him understand that he needs to change, but I do keep in mind that he will move on from that to something else . . . eventually! The "This too shall pass" phrase runs through my mind alot!!!!
MB - ok, I'm a tad obsessive about the microwave too. I cannot stand to see time left on it - and why the heck would the door be left open? LOL I've never denied I can tend to have a little OCD myself!!!
Jessie
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Post by MB on Oct 11, 2005 11:47:01 GMT -5
Jessie,
I can't see the time left on the microwave anymore!
mb
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Post by Connie on Oct 11, 2005 13:49:31 GMT -5
OK, I really have no advice to offer except for consistancy!!!with what ever form of disipline you choose. I am going to have to agree with MB...I think it is one of those quirkey things they are going to find on the extra 21 chromosome and a trait of DS. While Collin did tip chairs once or twice it wasn't a biggy for him how ever dumping containers of any type was and it was enough to drive me crazy!! But, on the bright side he is now 5 and has moved on from that!!! YEAH!!!
Oh, I have to add the closing of doors and turning off of lights to Collins Quirkey behaviors.
Connie
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Post by MB on Oct 11, 2005 17:24:29 GMT -5
After rereading my post, I want to contradict myself. If the chair tipping is not addressed and stopped, I am worried that the child will move on to even more destructive behavior. If he is tipping to get attention, I worry that he will do bigger and better stuff to get attention.
The quirky behavior can be addressed by consistently having him pick up the chairs. He should also be told at eye level, "don't tip chairs, sit in chairs." Both of these things have already been mentioned. The beauty of this type of behavior mod is that it can be cured whether it is quirky behavior or obstinate behavior.
My point should have been that, if I had to do it over again, I would still discipline but I would not be quite so frustrated. If I knew that the tipping was typical of kids with Ds and would eventually stop with consistent intervention, I wouldn't have pulled my hair out quite so often.
mb
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Post by cindylou on Oct 11, 2005 23:20:48 GMT -5
Okay-no stone throwing here but I will tell you what I have always done and will try to always do--treat her like I do my other kids. When she was little and disobedient, she got a spanking. As did (and currently do) all my kids during the 2-3 or 4 year range. I tried very hard to expect appropriate behavior from Kaylee just like I would my others. This has worked fairly well until she hit the hormone years-started her period this year. There's definatley been more door slamming around her-but she is held accountable for her actions. Do not get me wrong--I know that all children function at a different level, whether typical or otherwise, so one thing doesn't work for everyone. However, I remember when Kaylee was about 4 , getting ready to take her to the dentist. I was referred to a pediatric dentist who "did well with special needs kids". His office was directly across the hall from my personal dentist. We went to our appt and the peds dentist and a friends, with a child about 4 years older then Kaylee who had ds was just leaving. I asked how her daughter liked the dentist there and her reply was "Well, I think she likes him--though this is our 4th visit and the first time she would actually sit in the chair--the other times she just climbed under the chair and wouldn't come out." I took Kaylee immediately and walked across the hall and asked to speak to my dentist. Told him my concern--(have known him for years and knew he would support a more disciplined approach) and he said bring her back right now and we'll sit her down. I said-"Kaylee you need to sit down and open your mouth and let ___ count your teeth. If you misbehave you will have a spank." The dentist repeated what I said during the beginning of the exam--Kaylee wouldn't open her mouth and we marched to the bathroom and had a spank. (Not abusive, a simple spank) She sat down and opened her mouth and has been going to the dentist ever since without me coming back with her. She's had 4 teeth pulled and now at age 12 has braces and goes to the ortho every couple months with no problems at all. Had I taken the other approach she may still be under the chair.... I know this won't work for everyone - but in my opinion you should try to treat your child with ds the same as any other of your children. I now have a 2 year old boy (w/o ds) with whom I am going through very similar issues. I truly believe that ages 2-3 are the hardest and where children learn the most in regards to respect and following/obey the parent/authority figure. I have hardly spanked after that age. please, don't write awful replies at my frankness--just in a hurry so I blurted this all out. I really am a nice mom, ask around---- ;D
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Post by CC on Oct 11, 2005 23:39:42 GMT -5
Awwww CINDY girl you are one of the BEST of the BESTEST Mom's I can vouch for that ;D even thou, if you remember way back when we have always disagreed bout the spanking But hey thats OK as you said ALL are different and for us it just wouldn't work for CHRIS as he would then think it was OK to hit, KWIM?? You and I know what spanking is but my guy who may be on a lower level just didn't get the difference Miss you tons girl and ALL your GREAT insight ;D BTW how are all the kids doing?? We really need, or I at least would LOVE a looooooong update from you soon CC ~
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Post by cindylou on Oct 12, 2005 0:21:35 GMT -5
Christie- THanks for vouching for me girl! ;D
I know - the spanking thing doesn't work for everyone--and as Kaylee got older the time out thing really worked well with her--she just hated the word even! I thought--if I can't even control her behavior in a given situation-then how could I ever get her body to an actual time out spot. Then someone told me"just tell her-you're in time out, right there (whereever she happened to be at the moment) and that worked. She would cry, and say "I don't want time out..." etc. and she would quite the behavior. She has certainly been a challange, but life just wouldn't be the same without her (strong-willed) self! ;D
My 3 are all doing well...Having a boy (sam turned 2 in June) has been such a change of pace, and a challenge at 38. THought I'd just be off hitting the mall by myself while the girls were in school, etc..maybe have a job and bring in some vacation money...have a house that wasn't sticky and certainly not be changing diapers again!!! But he is sooooo great. I can't believe I was blessed with him and the most unexpected time. I always thought I would just be a mom to boys, because I am so not girly. So, I finally get the love from a little man..
Emma is 9 now, soccer star (sweeper if anyone knows soccer positions) violin player and skateboarder. She is drop dead cute-but her personality actually draws people to her. She is so kind, helpful and wise all at once. It's the weirdest thing, you'd have to meet her to know what I'm talking about. SHe has an old soul and definatley understands the important things in life.
Kaylee is 12, and very opinionated. Last year she was in the 5th grade choir at school and loved it (had to go early-w/o assistance-2 days a week to practice) and this year has insisited on being in the band. I tried to talk her out of it, I just wasn't sure about the instructor-but she's in now--playing the drums and evidently having a good time with it. She now rides a two wheeler with out training wheels and is sooo proud of that fact. She did start her period last March and is handling that okay. She takes care of it all herself--but I have noticed a change in her. She gets pimples now, and crocodile tears at unexpected moments. I am worried about junior high next year-what inclusion will look like at that level and am trying not to stress out to much. She likes to stay busy and has many great friends in the neighborhood. Just had over this afternoon a homework gang hanging out--1st grade girl, two 4th graders, another 6th grade boy and a 7th grade boy. All hanging out in my house and then my backyard goofing off and doing homework. She is surrounded by nice kids that accept her--and that's all that any of us could hope for for alll our kids--typical and those with disabilities in my opinion. They all played kick ball yesterday afternoon in the cul-de-sac and today it was soccer. She's only reading at a 1st grade level and math is the same. Her speech is still pretty difficult - but we continue with therapy. She's pretty darn cute and I'm thankful we were blessed with her. We butt heads a lot, but I guess I wouldn't have it any other way--- how are yours??
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