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Post by Chester on May 22, 2007 19:52:50 GMT -5
I've been dealing with Kindy placement for JT next year. Our ARC is this Friday. They've called in all the big dogs, so it should prove to be quite eventful.
In a nutshell the school has been telling me that JT will be going to Kindy at a different school than our neighborhood school due to our neighborhood school not having an FMD unit, a special ed. class. I've been going around and around with them, asking about the option of JT attending Kindy at our neighborhood school with the proper support isn't an option.
So here's my question. I know in my heart that JT would do just fine in "typical" kindy with the proper support.....my concern is "proper" support. We've had a crummy preschool year, he has manipulated all of them, and has gone pretty much all year without talking....sigh.
So my question is centered around LRE (least restrictive environment). I don't want him to be the guniea pig, at our neighborhood school. The Kindy teachers there don't have any special ed back ground. I don't want another year of him learning to manipulate people so that he can get out of doing school work. But I don't want an FMD unit either. He's in kindy for crying out loud, he should be with other kindergartners.
So where do you dry the LRE line?
Dawn
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Post by momofrussell on May 22, 2007 22:20:03 GMT -5
umm that's a tough one. BUT.. LRE (by law and in theory) IS your home school, gen ed kindy with supports. IF you really think that is where you want JT... you put that in writing.. come to the IEP with books on the laws.. just HOLDING the books help.. bring an advocate and go in prepared. I'd kinda do what Miss Laura did... write down present level of performance, which is what they gauge things by and go from there.
The flip side is to TOTALLY take out your parental wants for JT and TRULY look at JT and what he CAN handle.. and know that the other option is ok too. IT is.... but if it's MORE restrictive for JT, then keep fighting for the gen ed kindy at your home school.
They would HAVE to put in writing back to you WHY he can't do gen ed inclusion... and politely ask them to SHOW YOU WHERE IT STATES LRE is "self contained". I'd like to see them answer that!!!!
A.
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Post by CC on May 22, 2007 22:37:28 GMT -5
Hmmm maybe I am reading this wrong BUT sounds as if both programs are not what you want. Well you do want the home kindy with proper support and you should be able to get that BUT if your district is not big on giving the "proper support" you can still try and just be on them, but it can turn into kind of like a full time job, if your district is not willing, KWIM.
Are there any other options you may consider, least look at??
Yes I agree with A~ LRE is ones home school and most certainly can be done with the right supports but this is only my thinking I am sharing getting the right supports can truly be an issue in some districts and without them is truly a set up for failure to the child
How willing is your district?? The Kindy Teach may be much different then the preschool one KWIM?? Have you chatted with whoever would be the Kindy teach next year?? Do you get good vibes from her??
BEST of LUCK to you
CC ~
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Post by Chester on May 23, 2007 8:45:53 GMT -5
Thanks.
I think you hit it on the head CC. I don't like either option.
The school is telling me that typical kindy isn't an option, never been done before, la, la, la, la, la. I KNOW it can be done, and done well, but inclusion doesn't just happen.
I know the kindy teachers at our neighborhood school. Very nice, very new teachers, with no course work in special ed. There is nobody in the school with any special ed background (our school "hasn't needed" that knowledge i've been told...grr.) Our district is growing by leaps and bounds and they're having a hard time filling aide positions with qualified people, so a lot of times they are very nice ladies, whom JT walks all over.
So I'm sitting on the fence post, trying to decide how much to push. I think what the district is doing is wrong, but since they're so sure it won't work (many who are telling me it won't work haven't met JT or seen any of his test results other than his DS label). I'm not willing for JT to be "the test run". If the district were more open, then I would feel like they would make every effort to make it successful, but I think they'd be quite happy to just let him slide through.
I'm going to head to the library today for a few books, to take with me. We have a Wrights Law seminar coming up near us soon, I may need to bring a long a few brochures for them!
I really do like what you said A, about having them put it in writing why he can't attend our neighborhood school. You should hear their verbal responses! What a riot!
Dawn
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Post by Chris too on May 23, 2007 11:50:01 GMT -5
Dawn, Please help me understand: you said that you are 'not willing for JT to be "the test run".' But if JT goes to the local school with proper supports, he will be just that. From where I'm sitting, not knowing JT except through you, JT belongs in the local school's regular kindy with proper supports, but if you are unwilling for him to be the first one in the district to do that, then that is not an option. If this is what you meant then the best advise I can give is: Don't fight what you are unwilling to win; be careful what you wish for; and all that. On the other hand, you may mean that you didn't want for JT to be "the test run", but that's where you are, and you'll take it if that's the best you can get (sounds like it is). In which case, you have lots of cheerleaders right here Go Dawn!! Like CC, I worry that my questions will be taken as attacks. Please don't see this as an attack, it's not intended to be. I just want to understand. Chris
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Post by Chester on May 23, 2007 12:20:42 GMT -5
No, no Chris, I appreciate the input.
Our meeting is Friday. I need to find out from the school personell information, rather than for them to tell me that the only option is the special ed classroom at a different school. I'm realizing that before I can even justify an answer either way, I need to know from the school what they will provide for support at our neighborhood school and if it will be quality support.
I'm just so tired of being fed BS. The special ed director, whom I've only asked questions to, told me that he is opening a new k-1 special ed classroom at a school that already has a special ed class because he's so thrilled about the friendships that can be made. He wasn't very happy when I told him my son was going to be a kindergartner, and I would rather have him make friends with others his age rather than 3-4-5 graders.
Something is fishy, and from what I can gather it's all hinging around budgets. They're trying to hard to open this other special ed class, and FILL it, at a school that already has one. While in the same breath the special ed director tells me that before long because of population growth he predicts each school will have one. Right now 3 of our 8 schools have one, the 4th class (k-1)they are opening at a school that already has one...huh?! why not put it at a central school that doesn't have one?
I've told the special ed director over and over that my concern so far is the procedure. I've gone and visited the other school that has a special ed classroom, but the one JT will be in will be different. Brand new teacher and brand new group of kids next year.
I have been timid on speaking my mind too much with the school personell, because I may very well decide that the special ed setting maybe the best setting for JT, sounds like at the other school he can go a full day and be mainstreamed into a typical kindy for 1/2 day and for the rest of the day special services. I haven't said no, to anything, I just keep asking what about LRE and our neighborhood school?
If they're even unwilling to talk about it, it makes me very nervous to pursue it and send JT there.
There is another little guy in JT's preschool class (which is inclusive) with DS in the same boat. His family is threatening to homeschool, if they can't consider our neighborhood school.
So basically, if I felt that we would be given proper support at our neighborhood kindy, that's where I would send him in a heart beat. We're finding out that follow through here is not common place. So if I'm unwilling to chance it, so I guess, the special ed classroom, is my safest bet.
Thanks for letting me think while I type.......
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Post by Chris too on May 23, 2007 18:04:30 GMT -5
Oh, Dawn, now I understand why everything was a bit unclear - it's not you, but the school system that's all mixed up Wow. I wonder if an appeal to the school board to make the new sp. ed. class be at a school that doesn't already have one, would be at all effective. Best wishes, and thanks for the "clarification"
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Post by momofrussell on May 23, 2007 18:19:21 GMT -5
I'd tell that parent not to threaten homeschool but to just take them to due process. I just don't know what leg they have to stand on with how the law reads... you too for that matter. but you are a bit more undecided at this point. I know you have alot to think about. It's tough, I know. And yes, on one hand they SHOULD be trying to accomodate JT in his homeschool... and I bet you'd love to be a trailblazer.. but would the really do right by JT? Would they want him there? Or would they make it difficult and point out all the faults of this set up to prove (that burden of proof thing) that this other school option is what JT needs? Hey.. the other option.. is it at an elementary school? Or is it in some off site building? You know.. there have been plenty of kids that have had BOTH has their placements... partial self contained with kindy... maybe if the other option can do both.. maybe that might be appropriate?? A.
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Post by Chris too on May 23, 2007 21:26:24 GMT -5
Homeschool ought never to be used as a threat or as a punishment. there are plenty of good reasons for choosing to school your own kids, anger is not one of them. It's also seen by the school system (ours anyway) as just another private school placement - little or no dollars out of their budget anyway.
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Post by momofrussell on May 23, 2007 21:28:54 GMT -5
Exactly.....I'd think if a parent threatened home school some district would say GO FOR IT! LOL
I am being snarky at best... but you know what I mean LOL
a.
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Post by Chester on May 23, 2007 22:06:43 GMT -5
Yep, I agree about the home school threat. They would home school, all 3, but still a drop in a bucket to a growing school district.
A~your points are exactly why I'm so leary about our neighborhood school. Seriously, after today, geez.....
My oldest has an IEP too. He's transitioning from Elem to MS. Pretty big deal for a kid with anxiety issues. The MS didn't show up to the first IEP Mtg. or to the addendum I called for this AM. I called the head teacher to find out whats up, he was so surprised. For some reason this school reads a label and thinks they have a kid figured out. This "teacher" actually said that kids like Cory usually do better when they're not the top dog anymore, they'll be the low man on the totum pole....ummm hello, my son is labeled ADHD, but I've never agreed with it....he's got anxiety issues and OCD, etc. He isn't the type of kid that needs to be put in his place, he's the type of kid we need to get out of his shell.....
What's your other option A? The other setting is in an elementary school too.
Thanks a ton! Dawn
Where in the world have we moved to? Get me outta here!
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Post by momofrussell on May 24, 2007 8:08:26 GMT -5
Ok.. if the other setting is at an elementary school... then he can have pulls outs to the gen ed kindy class. AND if they say they can't DO this... I'll scream and fly there to help you get this! LMAO THIS is what ALOT of kids in our districts have... spec ed class with pull outs to the gen ed setting. HECK... SOME even have typical kindy in the AM then in the afternoon the child is in the spec ed class for more learning and all therapies. SO... your district needs to know SOMEHOW that they cannot just offer "one size fits all" programming for JT and ALL the kids. They can't offer just ONE placement option... OHH how illegal that is! But... don't tell them it's illegal. I'd really put something in writing... tell them you'll be flexible to an extent if they'd give you "this" instead. THEN... if they say NO.. ask them to put it in writing. And then politely "remind" them by saying "although I appreciate how this district is handling the needs of the kids w/spec needs thus far, we all know a self contained class can't be the ONLY option you offer a parent" Say it with a smile, ect. I'd start looking for an advocate just in case too heehee A.
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Post by Chester on May 24, 2007 9:15:45 GMT -5
A, thanks for bringing that up. The spec. ed. director did say that once all kids are settled and they deem the kids are ready that they can be included into the typical kindy class.
JT is the kind of kid that would do better with learning the routine with all of the other kids. He is a routine boy. I'm about 90% sure that JT will be going to the spec. ed. class, just because it's not worth it (I am going to make them follow the correct procedure tomorrow though ; )....
So, following along your lines A, it doesn't sound like it's out of line for me to request that JT spend 1/2 of his day with the typical kindy, and 1/2 with the spec. ed, and for this to be implemented from the beginning of the school year. It is a 1/2 day typical kindy program.
He is going to be one tired camper, but at this point I'm not going to give the school the out of if he's tired, he doesn't have to go. The philosphy of the school district seems to be, to give the students an easy way out, I suppose in a way it lets the school off the hook too.
Thanks a ton and 1/2!
Dawn
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Post by momofrussell on May 24, 2007 10:30:30 GMT -5
Yes... it's VERY do-able.. I know plenty who's IEP's read JUST like that. Again, I can't stress enough for you to request it in writing though. Make a GOOD case for WHY JT needs gen ed AND the spec ed class..... that he needs routine AND... you could ALWAYS say you want him geared up for gen ed 1st grade NEXT year with pull outs EVEN if it's STILL at this other school.... get what you want and if it has to be at the other school, so be it. Just remember to politely stress JT's individual needs.... NOT what the kids in the district do with "their" programs. I'll be your cheerleader!!!! ;D a.
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Post by Debi on May 24, 2007 11:05:07 GMT -5
Daw, please, please share with this exhausted Mom their verbal responses. I am quite sure they are a riot and I SO desperately need a laugh and the sense I am not alone. I do believe I am going to write an article called the "Plexiglass Booth Paradox" wheren I talk and talk and explain and demostrate what Gabe needs & how it can be done; they must only be able to see me and not hear me cause there are nods all around but when I ask for follow up apparently they couldn't HEAR me. I do know that when I fought this same battle a while ago that it's very difficult to get them to ACTUALLY do what they are supposed to do (with supports & with a true individualized program ) if they have basically made up their minds that this is what we have ; take it or leave it. Just adopt the parental mantra.. it's gotta be in writing; no matter how amusing your verbal responses (oh and PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE share those!!)
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