ADHD and DS

[Cathy]

I was just wondering how are our kids diagnosed or tested for ADHD? ? ?

We went to the Multi-Disciplinary Clinic this week. Katie did great, of course the appointments span over 3 hours, where she sees a dietician, phychologist, PT, OT, Physitist and a doctor. Of course, this is Katie's usual nap time and we had just spent 2 hours in the car to get to the appointment The physchologist was her 2nd appointment and he thought she was "TOO ACTIVE" and that she needs to have a physch eval done. We tried getting one done thru school, but because of the speech delays, they couldn't get accurate results. They placed her at 2 years 4 months (and that was without a thorough eval).

So my question is... at what age is a psych eval actually beneficial? How do they draw the line between typical 3-4 year old behavior, DS and ADHD? What age were your kids DX'd??

I think Katie is fine, but they always get you to thinking.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Hugs,

Cathy

[justinsmom]

Hmmmmm "Too Active" sorry lol but her and Justin must be made for each other I had him in the peds for a quick checkup and she said the same thing to me about him. Although she said we should have him evaluated by a Behaviorist not a Psychologist. So now we wait for our appointment in 6 mos grrrrrrr for the Behaviorist. She said it could just be he is an over absorbent sponge just trying to learn and soak everything up unfortunately he is trying to do it all at once . We also rechecked his thyroid levels while there although still waiting for the results as he may need to have his dose changed, she said the thyroid also has something to do with focus and the ability to stay on task so we will see if that is it also.

[donnita]

Well, I bet Cassie would be called "too active" too. I wonder if there is a "normal" activity level, or if it just goes from "not active enough" to "too active."

Anyway, good luck!

Donnita

[christie]

CATHY, well for us OMG I was the one to go to the Docs when Chris was real young and say HELP I know he must be ADHD. OMG active is a mild word for him then My Doc said Hmmm usually the Teachers are the ones to express that the child should be checked for ADHD, which btw Christopher's teachers didn't think he was but I DID Anywho my ? to you is what does Katie's Teach think, not that she would be the end all, but does she think Katie is over active during school?

Also for us we were given a form really more of a questinaire (sp) type thing. One Coln and I had to fill out and one the Teach had to fill out which would give the Doc a better understanding then just from the office visit.

Just my thoughts K, BUT I think Katie is way to young to be classifed as ADHD, but again thats just my thougths.

BTW girl Chris is really wanting the white stuff sooo can you start Whooooooshing this way, PLEASE

CC ~

[Cathy]

CC

WOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHH (we have had flurries for a month now)

As for the teacher's opinion... I have not had a chance to talk to her.. Katie did not go to school on Thursday (Swimming lessons instead).. Friday the teacher was gone... Today was a National Holiday - in the UP - First day of Hunting season, so no school (obviously started by a person with no kids)! So I left a message for her to call me.

I do not think Katie is ADHD... she is active, but whats the alternative? She is almost 4! My typical child is way more active and nobody has suggested ADHD with her.

Katie can sit and watch a movie for hours... she can sit at the table and color for long periods of time, she can read books to her "babies" (of course no one really knows what she is telling them).

I think that sometimes it is too easy to classify children as ADHD. My biggest concern is: how can they determine what is ADHD behavior and what is DS behavior?? meaning, she will probably never be age approriate to her chronilogical age. KWIM?

I will let you know what Miss Michelle says tomorrow!

Hugs,

oh yeah... WOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHHHHH again!

Cathy

[momofrussell]

Well, I am not an expert with DS and ADD... but I will say, I do agree with CC that it does seem a bit young. I know when Russell was DX'd with the Autism at 4, Radonna thought he would NOT get DX'd because he was young also. But he did....

Regan is 11 and we JUST in this past year have questioned some things and ADD. She HAS been DX'd by 2 different docs and I am STILL not buying it sometimes LOL...

From my experience with our Ped Neuro, Russell and the tons of reading I have done, the way they DX some of this stuff, Autism included, is that there is "age or behavioral appropriate" behavior.. and it's when that behavior goes WAY above (or longer) then it should... if that makes sense... so a child that is 2 or 3 w/ds that is showing some behavior issues might be in a phase.. but if that child has ALWAYS been doing it and is now , say, 8, then it's time to look into why the behavior is still there... whether it's ADD , Autism or whatever...

With Russell, the Autism is part of him and they know at the school, but I will tell you, with Regan, I am so ANTI DX of the ADD.. I JUST want them to accomodate HER style of learning and NOT put a label on it... the school has NOT put a label on it as of yet (we get testing results today actually) and I really just want them to identify when she needs help....

i know, I am rambling... but I just wanted to give you my rambling thoughts for the day LOL

A.

[justinsmom]

Ok I just got back from Justins ped appointment for a script for othotics and I told her she needed to rewrite the referral for the behavioral clinic so this time instead of putting R/O hyperactivity she puts R/O ADHD. Now I'm thinking wait a minute this is not going to turn into a battle over medicating him. It's not like he WON'T do something he'll like Cathy said about the Princess he will sit and watch movies, color, play with his hotwheels for hours on end and actually build them a garage too , he is so creative when he plays, but at school he just wants to run around and check everything out and won't stay focused long enough to do the activities except for snack time grrrrrrr. I think alot of our problems stem from his old school where he was allowed to do whatever he wants so he thinks here at the new school which is really structured he is still testing his boundaries with them and fortunately his Teacher is awesome and don't buy into his secret weapon, his cuteness which he tries to use constantly. Ok starting to ramble I just spoke with his teacher about the newly R/O DX and she said he is no way close to having ADHD, so do I go ahead and make the appointment with the Behavioral Clinic or just continue working with him. Also when he is tired look out he is into everything and then some and he does get up around 5:30 am with DH who isn't the quietest person in the morning grrrrrrrr and is up the whole day on and since he goes to school in the afternoon he is just exhausted when he gets home and is nonstop on the go unless I give him a snack and put in a Wiggles video speaking of which maybe I will make the appointment and then ask them if there is a Wiggles Anonymous program or something, this kids eyes aren't even opened and he runs and puts a tape in grrrrrrrr.

[Cathy]

I just got off the phone with Katie's teacher. I purposely did not ask specifically about ADHD. Instead, I just asked how she was doing?

Her reply, is that on most days, she knows the routine, follows her cues and stays pretty much on task, unless of course there is something more interesting happening elswhere in the class. She said she was a little "Off task" today, which I assume is a result of too many days home with me (Still growling about HUNTING DAY).

I did not want the teacher "looking" for signs of ADHD. I wanted her to be the one to tell me. But her overall opinion, is that Katie is doing great at school. She is stubborn at times and wants to do what she wants, but she stays with the other kids, is not OVERLY ACTIVE and has really come into her own.

So I think, to save myself my sanity, I am gonna wait this out a little. If anyone disagrees with me here, please say so, I will not be offended. I just find, that I am obsessive when it come to her and I worry needlessly about things that I shouldn't.

So with that said, anyone who feels that I should be worrying please tell me...

Thanks guys for letting me vent and beg for your expertise!

A, I agree with you. I am anti-DXing, especially at such an early age, then she is labeled for life (so to speak).

I have seen many children with true ADHD and she is no where near them in behavior. I just think, she is an active child with a huge imagination and heck, she was so "inactive" before her heart surgery that I think she is making up for lost time (at my expense) Plus, you know how kids are, they are always worse when Mommy is around!

LOL thanks again guys.

Hugs to you all!

Cathy

[Cbean]

I just caught this one and have to LOL. Last year, my son's preschool teacher kept commenting on his impulses and difficulties sitting still in circle time, etc. She kept pressing the issue and never said the dreaded letters, but I just knew she was insinuating it. When I spoke with my pediatrician, his reply was "anyone who tries to diagnose a 4 year old child (or younger) with ADD, ADHD, etc. is a dufus." (Just one of the reasons I love my pediatrician!) He also brought up a valid point: 10 years ago, a child of 3 or 4 wouldn't even be in school. So, that's regarding my child w/o DS, so I would think this would apply even stronger to a child with DS. Assuming that a child with DS would be developmentally behind - I would expect that child to be more immature than average child of 4 so would in no way even think about it at this stage of the game. Of course, I am not an expert and am still "cooking" my little wonder with DS! All these labels drive me nuts. I swear that I would have been classified something way back when if they had these labels all those years ago!

[wrblack]

Yeah, well, I'm really slow to respond on this thread. Maybe just as well, not knowing anything about it. But here's a link to something by somebody who maybe does know a thing or two: www.altonweb.com/cs/downsyndrome/index.htm?page=adhd.html

[rickismom]

Well, before 3 one doesn't even TRY to diagnose ADHD.
Ricki was always the "more active" type of kid--- but at age two or so when I took her to Feurstein's center, they said "better active than out of it". At age 6 she was doing a very good job at avoiding work in all special lessons, and one of the teachers said that maybe she has ADHD. I said NO WAY, its true she is impulsive, but she can sit at the computer, sit and study with me. About a half year later I saw that her concentration was less, and she was getting more active. I went to a neurologist, and he said that she may have ADHD, and we tried a bit of Ritalin with her (too little, too short a trial) but it seemed that she was the same with or without it. Then, at age seven Miss Rocket took off. All of a sudden, even the tinest noise would get her out of her concentration. You could SEE that she was trying but NOT ABLE to stay on task. She showed more signs of "fidgety" active behavior, and MUCH more impulsiveness. I went to our family pediatrition, and said "I don't want to wait three monthes to get into a decent neurologist. Lets try Ritalin again, but a higher dose. Well, it was like night and day! If I forgot to give the meds, the siyat KNEW it and called me up to be sure (and then gave her the dose).

ADHD shows up with any (or al) of:
1 restlessness, hard to sit still behavior
2 being easily distracted by things (if the child has ONLY this, it would be ADD)
3 impulsiveness.

Restlessness and being distracted are not real typical DS behaviors; impulsiveness can be. But the impulsiveness Ricki shows--- where she does things that she really knows is not in her best interests, is beyond the "regular" DS behavior impulsiveness, I think.

Recently I took her to a good neurologist with expertise with kids with ADHD including those with DS. She interviewed me, gave questions to be filled out by the teacher, and also ran a computer test which rates how quickly one reacts to a stimulous, the impulsiveness amout. Then she later ran the test again when Ricki had taken Ritalin, and conluded that there is no doubt (what so ever!) that Ricki has ADHD.

I would be very hesitent to put a ADHD label on a 4 year old with DS as they would not yet be at the three yearold level.
Also beware of staff trying to pass a child off as "too active" when in reality maybe a change is needed in their program.
GOOD LUCK!

[Claire]

Adam is 7 in grade one and I have deffenitely been told by his teacher and TA on several occasions that he is sooooo active. He runs out of the class room in seconds (and that is with a 100% TA supervision) They just can't keep up with him. He is the same at home. We had his thyroid checked and it is OK. I thought of talking to our doctor about imaybe ADHD, but am scared they will want him on Ritalin or something. Any suggestions appreciated here too.

[rickismom]

I don't know why Ritalin has such a bad nme--- the long release Ritalin "concerta" Ricki takes is a G-d send--- helps keep Ricki calm enough that she doesn't go crazy from us pulling our hair out!

[Claire]

I didn't know they had long release Ritalin, I'll have to check that one out. My oldest son used Ritalin but that was 15 years ago. It made him a zombie during the day and he couldn't sleep at night so they took him off after 2 weeks.
Thanks for letting me know I will speak to the doctoe about it.