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Post by christie on Jun 4, 2004 22:44:19 GMT -5
Man oh Man can I relate to this post. YIKES, I swear Chris was born throwing any and all that he got his little hands on Alls I can tell you is he truly has one heck of a good throw now, when he plays baseball and basketball ;D LOLOL Honestly, EVERYONE is amazed at what a great percise throw Chris has now, I just say, its from years of practice, LOL Guess all those years of throwing paid off
We tried ALL to stop him and to tell you the truth I truly believe just him maturing was the key. He still LOVES to throw stuff but now understands better what he can throw and what he can't
Man have you brought back many many memories for me
CC
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Post by MB on Jun 5, 2004 16:55:27 GMT -5
Loved everyone's posts. Hear me out while I throw out some ideas.
One of the reasons I am so high on discipline for young kids with Down syndrome is that they will require discipline to function in the real world. I am defining discipline as the ability to control one's own actions.
It is very possible that our kids could outgrow the throwing if we simply ignored it. I would love to have parents who may have experienced this chime in. But, I have known kids with Ds who have not been disciplined and have not outgrown this behavior. Now, these kids are at a disadvantage socially because they have a bad reputation and people don't want them visiting their homes.
On top of the throwing issue, these kids simply do not behave. It doesn't matter if its inappropriate yelling, spitting, touching things, running off or ignoring instructions, the inappropriate behavior, at some point, becomes too intrusive for people to handle.
I find that these parents expect the world to acommodate their child's behavior. The world is willing to acommodate the disability, not the inappropriate behavior. It is amazing how quickly the rest of the world can figure out the difference!
The other reason I encourage discipline is to give our kids with Ds a roadmap for school. When a child hears a teacher disciplining (saying "no" to something), the child has been trained at home to react appropriately. At the very least, the child will react sooner because the child is used to being disciplined. You can see this in the typical kids you know. It is very easy to pick out the kids at a large family gathering, like a church picnic, who have been effectively disciplined all along. They quickly mind their parents and can pick up on the boundaries of the party. Even more spirited kids know when enough is enough by the expression or command in their parents' voices. The common denominator that I have seen in these parents is that they take action, they agree upon the action and they show very little emotion while taking the action.
One post I absolutely agree with is that I make it sound easier than it really is. Yes, I do that and I apologize! Our kids require a very high level of commitment. It is exhausting and the rewards are so far down the road that it is very difficult to stay focused. But, it does pay off and the reward is almost staggering when compared to the early years of parenting a child with Ds.
MB
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Post by christie on Jun 5, 2004 23:00:17 GMT -5
Hmmmm MB, have you not learned NOOOOO THROWING out ideas, although you may HAND out ideas, LOLOL Just a little throwing humor there
MB, I don't think anyone here suggested to ignore behaviors but speaking for myself, I have found that depending on what age the child is, some behaviors do have to be overlooked, or maybe not over looked but understood that the child just might not get it at that time, till they are mature enough to understand the consequences. At least with my little Character I have found that to be true over and over again. Things that did not work we would put on hold and try again as he got older and then woud work like a charm ;D
Just as we always discuss here ALL children are different, DS or not and what might work for one may not work for another. One example here in our house is when Kodi was tiny I purchased this BIG red timer that said "TIME OUT" on it. Kodi Lee, OMG was the easiest child in the world to raise and I only needed to use it twice with her and the second time, alls I did was take it out and OMG the girl was soooo upset and never again did I ever have to use with her. Now Chris, lets just say, he could have cared less when he saw the Time Out Timer. Man oh Man he would just get up from the time out seat and turn the timer off and for that he got longer time out and Nooo biggy for him, till later when he got older, then it worked like a charm and today alls I have to say is "You want TIME OUT" and BINGO his behavior 98% of the time straightens out.
I AGREE 100% that bad behaviors need to be worked on, as what seems cute at 4 or 5 is NOT cute at 10, 11 ... I just think that some kids need a hard discipline and some don't, it really depends on the child and finding exactly what gets thru to them.
I have found and I do AGREE with you, consistency and not showing emotion is the way to go, but even then sometimes it becomes a battle of wills
Two of my very good Pals both have sons now 22 and both have DS and OMG when their sons were young OMG BOTH Mom's told me they didn't think they would survive the behaviors and BOTH tell me to this day Maturity played a big big role, not the end all but a BIG part. Both of these young men are the nicest and most polite, happiest, young men I have ever met I can only hope my Chris ends up like both of them one day
Chris LOVES to throw and the key for us was getting him to understand what he could throw and where he could throw vs just throwing everything And for us that took a looooong time, BUT we got there and thats what counts, RIGHT
And I just have to add my daughter never needed much dicipline, Man oh Man were we ever lucky, she just happen to be a child that behaved from the get go ;D
Soooo after all my ramblings here, LOLOL I guess what I am trying to share is that some kids yes will get it after being told 20 times and some kids may not till after the 100th time or maybe even the 110th time
I ALWAYS say to Colin, I truly believe DS or not Chris is just a wound up kid, precious one, but wound up just the same and what easily worked with Kodi just doesn't cut it with Chris most times. Sooo we just have to find what does work with him
Sorry for the long rambles BUT Behaviors and Speech are the areas that always get me rambling
CC
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Post by paulineuk on Jun 6, 2004 2:48:02 GMT -5
Hello MB. You say in your post "these kids simply do not behave", I presume you mean kids with DS and I don't see how you can say that. My son is nearly 17 and has never had any behavour issues. I am sure that it is not because of my excellent parenting skills but that is just the way he is. He is one of the less able children but he is happy, placid, very good natured and a joy to have around. He has never been naughty at school either, well not that I have even been informed about. I also have friends who have children with DS who are well behaved but I must admit I do know some real little horrors too ;D So parents with babies and younger children is it not a forgone conclusion that you children will misbehave either . Pauline UK
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Post by momofrussell on Jun 7, 2004 16:49:38 GMT -5
Hmmm, as far as I can remember, Russell basically grew out of the throwing. Kind of like ANY typical toddler going through phases. We tried to have him pick it up when we could... but seeing he has reflux issues, consistiancy wasn't always an option. Now.. that said.. on a whole, I DO agree that for ANYONE , disability or not, discipline is just how this world works. BUT, we all have our own "guidelines" for what discipline is and what we can do/handle. But EVERYONE needs discipline for all sorts of things. Now... from the kids I have met and read about, some DO have more a time "behaviorally" than others. EVEN with parents that are structured and disciplined by nature. That's just the way it is. We try and try and the child TRIES us.... LOL. And some of us have a "nearer" breaking point than others. MB, I am assuming your breaking point is WAAAAAAAAAY farther down the line than mine, and we (my husband and I)DO the same discipline approaches for all three of our kids in our house. I am now going to sound like I am trying to make excuses but... going to college for child developement and psych and then being a parent are TWO different things for me personally. This last year has really tried me as a parent. Discipline sometimes gets thrown out of the window... and I am not EVEN talking about my child w/DS. Also, kids who are really low with receptive language tend to NOT do well sometimes even with the strictest of rules and discline. We have struggled with that for years with Russell. That is a key part of it for some as well as us. Like right now, Russell LOVES to rough house and we do too.. but sometimes KICKING us along with it and laughing is what Russell does. We say EVERY time NO KICKING and stop the rough housing... but he keeps coming back for more.... we do this DAILY... and I must say, even though Russell understands some, not lots, but some, he really is NOT getting the gist of it because of how delayed his receptive language is. Russell also has no speech so along with discipline in our house comes anger from Russell and head banging because he is trying to hurt himself... so it's not always as easy as it is on paper... Russell is also a "wanderer". We keep the gates locked in the back and watch him closely, but he does run away, and that is NOT because he is not disciplined!!!! That is just who Russell is God Luv him! Also, after the YEAR I have had with my 11 yr old daughter, and endless years of the SAME rules, day in and day out and the same discipline daily, She is STILL who she is and has been since TWO years old. We also observe, read, alter, and do what ever it takes to try and make it work.. and keep the rules we have... and it just isn't that easy. I am also all for staying calm... LMAO!!! YEAH RIGHT.. not this year. My patience is worn, and my calmness isn't here much... but yes, non emotions are better for progress, usually. Now.. with my 3 yr old... PIECE OF CAKE!!!! LOL So... in theory, I do agree with you MB, on how discipline and aproaches are suppose to work and how hard parents are suppose to try, but for us here... it's not always that easy. I know you don't have it easy yourself and I appreciate how resouceful you are. Because of Regan and Russell and of who I am, I am very resourceful myself.. and it STILL doesn't work sometimes. I am one though, that doesn't expect the world to accomodate my children's behavior. The world doesn't work like that. I have been trying to drill that into my 11 yr old head for YEARS... she STILL doesn't get it. But, having a child w/spec needs sometimes there ARE concessions.. THAT is just the way it is too. I am told by my friends that I am a mean mom LOL... but, I will tell you this, my kids are more behaved then most So, we DO try our best, and we DO see results when push comes to shove. We have certain rules for a reason here... just like you have the discipline thing, to guide them to a prosperous life. So... call me mean! I also thought that rude kids and whiners were a product of the parents lazy non-disciplined approach until I had two girls LOL My kids have taught me that through my rules and discipline, they will let ME know who they are.... But I can take them to a nice restaurant so I can't complain tooo much!! LOLOL I guess to sum up my LONG winded post LOL, discipline is VERY needed for anyone to succeed in the world, but our children, DS or not, are who they are, and it doesn't always work out that way! A. p.s. Pauline, I think MB was refering to some of the children SHE knew w/DS.. not all children w/DS... at least that is how I read it.
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Post by MaggiesMom on Jun 8, 2004 23:43:30 GMT -5
Maggie has to be right up there with the King and Queens of throwing! We have sworn she will be an ace pitcher one day.
We tried it all, but two things seem to really work with her....
First, watch for being "done" and getting bored. Both are sure fire triggers for throwing at our house.
Second, we use a bucket during all therapy sessions so when she is "done" everything goes in the bucket or bag or whatever you want to use. It still lets them communicate that they are "done" without doing it obnoxiously. Maggie now claps for herself after tossing items in the bucket. Yeah!
She has gotten a lot better the past few months. But, I think it's been due to all of making a real effort to head it off before it happens. Especially during therapy.
She still doesn't feed herself and we took away that dreaded sippy cup two weeks ago...Yippeee! So now she has nothing to throw after she finishes eating or drinking. I'm sure hope that changes....as in I hope she starts feeding herself soon!
Take care.
Robin M - Maggie's mom
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Post by rickismom on Jun 9, 2004 1:57:12 GMT -5
I think that a lot depends on the age of the child, what he is getting from it, etc. A bit of throwing is NORMAL at a certain developemental age, and may go away rather quickly, if not reinforced. Mild comments,of "We don't throw things" with NO EMOTION OR ATTENTION is needed. Obviously, if things extend for a long time, have become a battle of wills, etc more firm behavior management is needed. Ricki was never much of a thrower. She was a SITTER (sit down on the dirty pavement was an easy way to get attention until Mommy fiqured things out... Maturity surely helps, but usually some behavior management is needed as well...
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Post by steffipoo on Jun 12, 2004 1:31:52 GMT -5
HI!!!! must say I really enjoyed reading your post and the answers. MB is great with the most logical and pertinent ?'s re. beh's been a big help to me. BUT what I found so refreshing was the fact that you remind me so much of Livs sp ed teacher. She told me about dec that she was I guess in charge of (custodian or whatever you call that) of her elderly aunt who had many needs now and looked me in the eye and said., I really can see thru this experience with my aunt all the stuff the parents of my sp ed students go thru. And when she doesn't know she'll ask me or anyone who can help her.When shes frustrated she'll tell me, then we"ll brainstorm a few ideas 2 gether. Anyhow I will tell you a boy we know with ds who is Olivias age(6) used to be a BIG TIME THROWER.) By 5 years of age he stopped so there is hope cause man the kid could throw it all and LOVED LOVED to pull Livs ponytails every chance he got and now POOF GONE keep on it and it'll pass some things take longer than others but as you know try every strategy you can to get him to stop. Employ all teachers and family members to use the same method as you do and stick it out, Olivia tends to lose negative behaviors if I employ a strategy then tell all to use the same one and the beh's go away FAST NOTHING worse than a relative who laughs or thinks it's cute ya know? Keep him away from those.LOLOLOL...Steff
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