Update on Patrick's transition to public school

[TriciaF]

Hi guys,
Just an update for those of you that have been offering such good advice on our first (and not esp. pleasant) foray into the world of public school special ed.

background- in addition to the 4 Transition kindergartens (sp. ed. kindy w/ pullouts to things like music, etc located in other schools), we asked the pre-school special ed dir. to consider as a placement a unique class located in our HOME school called an inclusion class. It is an all day four year old class with a max of 18 students, one head teacher and two asst. teachers. Half of the class is typical and half have IEP's. As Patrick's goals (which have not yet been written-but he is testing in the 2.5 to 3.5 range in most areas) will be pre-school skill goals, not kindergarten age goals, we thought this program had a lot to offer. Patrick is a very young 5-birthday April 21st. The fact that Patrick would have all day inclusion and exposure to typical kids I thought was a very imp. consideration. I also like the idea that the school psychologist and kindergarten teachers would have an opportunity to get to know him as a student in the school before being asked to possibly include him in their classes the following year. I have been told that our home school can only support a sp needs child in reg ed, or reg ed with resource. Beyond that, the only special classes are autistic and TMD in our school.

Well-at first we were refused consideration based on his age, having already turned 5. I called and discussed the topic with the district sp.ed. director and she said she would call the state department of education and call me back. We spoke today and she said that she has spoken with them and there is no legal reason to keep Patrick out of the 4 year old classroom. She requested to go visit and observe Patrick at his current school in the next two weeks as she has never met him.

I asked permission to go visit the 4 year old classroom while the students were in class and she agreed to email the teacher to arrange a visit. I visited once in the fall while the children were out and talked to the teacher and examined the classroom and children's work. I will go visit the other transitional classrooms as well.

After that longwinded story, here is the new point she brought up. She said that while the academic goals of the classes might be similar, she says that the special ed classes are more structured and that the four year old class is of course more like you would consider a four year old class.....alot more laid back. The implication there being that if a child was going to be included in a regular kindergarten class the next year (and she knows that is what I want), he would benefit from the extra structure. Now, that is a good point, I will concede. But, on the other hand, I am thinking that if Patrick is not yet ready for that structure developmently, why try to force it early? And why assume it will not come along when it should? Also, I would assume some of the typical children that would attend the four year old class with him, should he go there, would also be in his kindy and serve as peer models that he knows and will follow in the more structured environment.

Have any of you dealt with this issue? One recent experience with Patrick that surprised me was that I attended my Mother's church with my entire extended family and Patrick this past mother's day and surprise....they had NO nursery at all. So, Patrick had to have a trial run sitting in church through the service. At our church...he goes in with the 3 year olds during service. Well, he did just great...shocked me. My nephews little girl, 7 months old, was there and she was babbling occasionally and Patrick was telling her to Shhhh and had his finger on his mouth. That experience let me know that he can do it.....I do believe he did better in my moms church because so many of our family that he knows (3 full pews-LOL) were all sitting quietly as well. Just makes me think that when in reg kindy he will follow the lead of others.

[Jackie]

Tricia...many years ago..here is what we did with Emily. She always attended her home schools and spent most of her 12 years in an inclusive environment

She started preschool when she was three...Amarillo Christian Montessori.....we chose to hold her back when she turned four and she repeated the 3 yr old class.....(this is the only time we ever held her back and she graduated HS at age 19 with the kids she started kindergarten with)....so...another year in Montessori.

Then when she was 5 we put her into a traditional preschool recommended by her future public kindergarten teacher. She went half days there and then in the afternoon attended an early education class she was qualified for at an elementary school (not her home school). This turned out to be a great thing...there were only five kids in the class and they all went on to regular kindergarten placements in their home schools...and in this program they did most of their activities with a regular kindergarten class ...so she learned the ropes.

At age 6 she began attending half day kindergarten at our home school.(our district only has a half day option) I did a bit of research and realized that at age 6 a child in Texas is entitled to a full day of school...so managed to convince everyone to let her go to kindergarten in the AM....then stay and eat lunch with first graders....and....spend the afternoon in a resource setting where they either reinforced her kindy skills or pretaught her the next new ones. It worked well for everyone...and in first grade....Em was more than ready to begin. She was the only one in the class who knew how to negotiate the lunch room...so for a while really was a leader in this respect....LOL.

I have never understood schools reluctance to include our kids in kindergarten. There are so many kids with behavior problems...and immaturity issues at this point in their lives that it surely wouldnt seem that our kids who do have some of these would seem any different.

My experience with many kindy teachers (not all ...but many....so IF you ARE one...dont jump down my throat here) is that in comparison to upper grade teachers...they seem to like to see all their "ducks in a row" so to speak. For many I think the prospect of having a student with identified difficulties throw them.

I think MANY kids coming into kindergarten...some from preschools...others from NO preschool often have trouble with "structure" issues. My 10 yr old grandson still has issues with structure...LOL.

The one thing that Emily DID have to learn in kindergarten vs her early childhood class....was the PACE of things....she was used to having been given more time for everything when she really didnt need it....and sometimes the break was almost over by the time she managed to put her work away and get her hat and coat out of her locker and get to the playground.

Another thing that often sets our kids apart from those without DS is that they do need (?) or take so much time to do many things. I think some of this is learned behavior from people who have low expectations from them so keep that in mind too.

As you can see here I am a believer in giving regular kindergarten a chance.

Jackie mom to Emily 25

[momofrussell]

THANK GOODNESS THEY 'VE SEEN THE LIGHT!!! LOL

First off... I can't believe your spec ed director didn't KNOW the laws and had to call.. but I am glad she did! If she'd JUST come here to Uno.. we could have ALL told her and saved her the dime! ;D ;D Second.. I am SHOCKED that you have already had one meet and she hasn't even met Patrick yet? Did I understand that correctly? Man, Russell is well known prior to new meets and transitions. They make sure of it. How could you know or not know what to talk about at the IEP or placement options if you haven't met the child!!!!

Ok.. on to your question. I will tell you my observations with Russell's classes he has been in and Reece's class (she is in a class like what you want to place Patrick in the Fall). Russell NEEDS structure but has had placement with and without as much structure as this year before. I personally took him out of a place with more structure back in IL to a place where it was more a EI on the floor approach with less structure because that is what he needed. He probably has the most structure NOW in his current class, but that is due to who HE is and them now understanding that Russell NEEDS that.. and who his teacher is. She is VERY structured. So, the class alone is not the structure in my experience.. it's also part of the IEP AND teacher too. Now, Reece is in the half and half class right next door to him. It patterns a preschool class.. 3-5 yr olds. There are various disabilities in the class as well typical kids. There is even a child w/DS in her class. And her class is structured also. Now, if Russell was in that class instead of the class he was in, his current class would have more structure, but again, that is due to the set up and teacher. But he would be able to handle the other class if they accomodated him. Remember, Russell is alot more delayed at 7 then Patrick is at 5. I would say that Reece's class is a bit more layed back then Russell's self contained class... so I can see where the spec ed lady is coming from... but structure is just one piece of the puzzle. It's good you think about the structure though. I know that Russell THRIVES with tons of structure. But what can Patrick handle.. that is the real question!

I think you mentioned you saw the other class they keep pushing right? So you know how it's set up. I would go with the coordinator and see the other class and take Patrick there too. And then weigh your options. I think you are doing SO good and conveying to these people that YOU know your son too. They talk to you and bring up things like you aren't "thinking".. and you ARE thinking of everything...

A.

[donnita]

I have no advice but am very interested in the replies and how this works out for Patrick. Cassie will turn 5 next April, so like Patrick, she will really (in my opinion) be too young to start traditional kindergarten. I would rather wait and start kindy when she is 6 and keep her with the same group of kids for as long as possible.

Good luck!

[TriciaF]

Thanks guys for the input!

A- the pre-school special ed director is the one who screened Patrick along with a nurse and speech therapist last week and she was the one who told me point blank that the 4 year old class was NOT an option and when asked why, replied because he is 5. She was very, very firm. So, I called the district office and spoke with the director of special ed for the District.

The district director was the one who told me some of the odd stuff we talked about on the Msg board and the same person who called the state dept and has now said that there is not a legal reason to keep Patrick out of the class due to his age. Because she would not normally be involved in all this (I got her involved), she has not met Patrick. So, she is the one who will go visit his current program to observe. I am hoping this is a positive development and not just for show or to find another argument to keep him from being considered for the home school 4 year old class. I do believe that she will be impressed by the program and his current teacher. I think the teacher will support me in that Patrick will be a great fit for the four year old class. Maybe the teacher's opinion will be considered neutral and carry some weight. I am further hoping she will see the great interaction between Patrick and his best buddy, Michael. Michael is three, almost 4 and is typical....he attends because his older sister is in the same class and has special needs. Patrick and Michael are very involved with each other and play great together (I don't think he would get that same interest from 5, maybe soon to be 6 year olds). If Patrick were to go into the self-contained kindy....he would mainstream with those 5, almost 6 year olds for extra ciriculora like music, recess, etc. But, I feel that they would think he was babyish and also not really part of "their" class. I would rather he was part of the all day 4 year old class. Another thing that I guess is a bit different from what some of you experience and have as options....in our district.....all the kindergartens are full day. That limits some of the being able to repeat info in the morning and afternoon in two different classes.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

[TriciaF]

Donnita,
The biggest lesson I am taking away from this so far....is don't wait to explore your options. Visit classes as soon as you can....including those outside your school district....and talk to other parents in your school/district that are a bit ahead of you. Find out who the decision makers are and what is available at your homeschool. It really helped me to have a current full speech eval and psychological from someone outside the district to that I could observe the process and have input when appropriate. In SC, Patrick has medicaid outside our income that paid for this testing and the developmental pediatric office that did the testing is well respected by the school district and the psychologist is certified such that he can be hired by the district. This made it much easier to get them to accept both the independent speech eval and the psych report and not decide to retest him. They will only have to add their personal observations to complete his package. I know others here are getting their private pre-schools paid for at age 5 and can maybe tell you how they accomplished that major coup!!

[momofrussell]

Gotcha Tricia! Thanks for the clarification.. and KUDOS for calling that person then! I am going to have to start keeping track of all that is involved in your mess so I can follow along better and not get my panties in a wad over nothing! LMAO.. heehee....

Just call me Norma!.... Norma Rae A that is....heeheeheeheeheeheee

A.

[steffipoo]

Hi Tricia... I wanna add that the program at your home school sounds amazing. AND they could alll get to know Patrick next year so they can find a nice fit for Patrick in kinder. Having Olivia go to kinder for the second time at our home school was the best thing we ever did. It wasn't always easy but with supports it was unbelieveable. PLUS they all knew her there from me picking up Kyle with her. AND her bro goes there. They had best just give him that it sounds just perfect for everyone. Hmmmm.... my mind is in a jumble lemme think of something this weekend that may help I'll ask around. HUGS Steff

[steffipoo]

;D Donnita I love your advice bout visiting aasap. I am visiting on my pown which is a BIG NO NO to the district. BUT what I do is go right before school starts and talk to the teacher without anyone knowing the teachers are really good about this. At the very least I am weeding out stuff that are NOT options and won't waste the program specialists time. Really not supposed to do it this way but any other way I'd hafta go thru the office and they'd tell me to go thru the program specialist. hee hee Steff

[momofrussell]

I agree... visit ALL and as early as you can! I am a planner, (or was it control freak? LOL) by nature, so I do my school homework MONTHS in advance. Although I wasn't as sneaky as Steff was LOL, I always called up who I had to and visited all I wanted to. And no one ever had a problem with that in the 3 states I have been in. So I could get a clear picture and make sure they didn't just show me what THEY wanted to show me! I want to see it ALL baby! We are thinking of moving next year to a bigger house (and possibly out of district) and I have already started seeing schools and doing my homework. I have a ways to go but have narrowed it down two different school districts. I just need to see the schools that might be "appropriate" for Russell. I saw one a month or so back but it wasn't really "appropriate" for him.

A.

[SuziF]

I'm right in there with A & Steff I guess. Even though like Cassie, Merideth won't turn 5 till next April, I've already been out there asking ? & checking out the options. I also have the advantage that Sam will be in the kindy class this year at our home school.Merideth will get to go with me each day to pick him up as it's the last year of 1/2 day kindy here.
This year she's in a private 3yo class "Wee School". Next year she'll attend the same school's 4yo class & have the teachers Sam had this year. At least 5 of her 6 classmates will be in her class. 2 of those also get services though 1 is just a typical child who won't speak.~That child is the one who is only 4mths older & they've known each other since birth. With a bit of luck they'll get the same kindy teacher the next year. Though, our district does try & discourage kids with downs from attending the neighborhood school. They've already been warned that they need to rethink that. We have the advantage of knowing the Special Learning instructor. The principal is also a family friend & another friend with a daughter with multiple needs is on school board. (My dad used to be on board& literally hired the principal who was a former student of his. MIL taught in the district as well before moving on to teach at the local com. college)
When I cornered the SP Ed teach at a soccer game a few weeks ago she once again mentioned that the neighborhood school hasn't had a child with DS attend since "at least the early 90's" I just sort of said, "ok, nice, but they WILL again next year" I also told her I expect some sort of 1/2 day in kindy to 1/2 in pullout arrangment if the new kindy set up will somehow work well FOR US that way.
Oh, I've also been scoping it out with the kindy teacher.The one, luckily, has known Meri since birth as have a few of the aides in the district as they all have kids the same age as our older boys & the kids played on the same soccer teams.

My biggest hurdle right now is helping the private preschool get an aide thru Meri's wraparound funding for this coming fall...I hafta pounce on that again Mon.

Have a great weekend !
Suzi

[CC]

YAHOOOOOO TRICIA ;D

I am soooo GLAD to hear this news and soooooo glad that you went further then the person that said NOOOOO in the first place Never give up is my motto

ALL the BEST and just remember nothing is written in stone and programs can be changed if needed BUT sounds like you found the right placement for PATRICK at this time. PLEASE keep us informed, how it all goes.

AND

AGAIN WTG girl

[Debi]

Tricia, I know I've shared about Gabe's preschool/Kindy programs before but maybe his experience will also provide some insight.
Our district does do a very strong 3 to 5 program (it was a pilot program started before he got there) which was set up specifiically to serve typical and special needs kids (Ariel went there for one year; lol she used to call it "pretty school" ). This was ONE program that I think our SD does right~~I think anytime you get a chance to mix typical kids & kids w/ sp. needs at this age you have a BIG win/win situation for everyone. Gabe really thrived in that program and one reason was the quality of the teachers there: they would send me a full page of notes EVERY day . All teachers there were fullly trained for pre school kids of WHATEVER ability or developmental age.
I am a big believer in having the pre school experience being as "naturalistic " as possible and with all the little ones grouped together that is SO much easier~~I also know one reason Gabe thrived was that he was with kids of all different abilities.
I am really not getting this age thing...in Iowa if the program is the right one they can write an exception if the child is over the chronological age but still in the right developmental age for a program. Somebody has to fill out a form somewhere but hey that is why they get the big bucks.

[TriciaF]

Morning guys...no new developments...but something happened I had to share.

I was talking to an attorney yesterday who deals with elder care law, wills & special needs trusts and education law. I was responsible for arranging for him to come give a presentation to our Ds support group.

During the conversation, I mentioned that I had been dealing with the whole special ed thing recently and that it had been very difficult. He asked what district I was in and then went on to say what a wonderful district it was (his wife is a lead teacher in the district). I agreed with him that we have a great district....I went to school here and even the special ed staff is excellent...just not inclusion oriented.

I told him that I just was very surprised at some of the things they were telling me these past few weeks that were clearly wrong and probably not legal (under IDEA). I gave him the example of the comment about not wanting to put Patrick in an off age placement because it might set a precedent and open up a can of worms.

Well....this was so funny....he said....."I won't even ask you who said that, but, you should really pass that information along to the special education director for the district....because she needs to know that some of her people would say something like that." So...and I hope I it won't come back to haunt me....but I just absolutely could not help myself.....I had to tell him..... "But, she's the one who said it"

[TriciaF]

Bringing this around for update and closure.....just wanted to let all of you who helped give me advice and listen to my wanderings/ravings know the outcome.

We had a frustrating summer, waiting for ANYTHING to happen...and nothing did. Finally, about 1 week before school started (Aug 8th in our district), the ball started rolling. Long and short of it was that Patrick started school 3 weeks late (we missed the open house and getting to meet other parents), but he is in the wonderful 4 year old class at our home school that I wanted for him, so it was worth the wait and the headaches.

The IEP was very rushed and the teacher did not meet Patrick before the meeting. She only wrote his goals the night before. The speech therapist was not at the IEP and we still have not met in person, but had a good phone converstation. We still don't have an OT evaluation...but its in the works. All of this sounds bad...but was OK because....I did spend lots of time working up Patrick's goals and had them with me, so I was prepared if it had been awful. But, the teacher is so experienced and wonderful...that her IEP was just fine. I thought for someone who never met Patrick, it was amazing. All my suggestions were noted and we still have private therapy once a week, so I am not too concerned with his therapy through school.

The class is going well, Patrick's only adjustment problems have been behaviour...the same sorts of things that all you unomasers have prepared me to expect all these years , which makes it so much easier to listen to and deal with and leave all that emotional junk (how is this my fault crap) out of the equation. He doesn't like coming in from the playground (surprise huh Steff), he resists leaving his center to go sit and work on any type art or writing project, he doesn't always follow instructions about lining up with the class to go back from lunch, he does the drop and flop.....and he has been making faces at the teachers when they fuss at him. But...he is happy in this class, learning so much.....and becoming loved for being Patrick.

I feel that I was respected and taken seriously both at the IEP and within the classroom because the educators can tell that I have done my homework and do have information/suggestions about Patrick's personality and learning style that can help him and them. And....no small part of all that homework has come from six years of listening to all you unomas experts sharing your lives, experiences and children, and the rest of us not being scared to ask the questions (even the simple and dumb questions). THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.

I have dreaded this transition from the minute I heard the term IEP and understood that I had quite a mountain to climb (felt like) in educating myself to advocate for Patrick. It has often made me feel that a big mistake/bad decision on my part could have major, long term, negative implications for Patrick's life (I know this is an exagerated, overblown idea as I can't really absolutely, CONTROL anything and wouldn't want to). When I get too far out on that limb, you guys bring me back to earth.

Patrick and God will have the most impact on where he ends up....and I am only co-piloting, no thats not even it, I am really more the navigator,....trying to keep us all pointed in the right direction....checking the weather reports, emergency plans, maintenance and fuel, and listening to the latest news from the other experts in the tower. You guys are my tower, the experts in guidance who know what I'm doing because you've been there. As the navigator, I don't control the flight...and the pilots can still overrule me at anytime!

You all have made it so easy and even, dare I say, FUN! It makes me breathe easier to know you are here.