Behavior and Discipline...

[Jodi]

This may be along the line of some previous posts, so please forgive me if I'm being redundant, again (LOL).

I struggle with the whole "when to discipline" subject. I wonder if I use Ryan's inability to communicate easliy as an excuse for his negative behavior. As I have said before, I think it's the "not knowing why" he does things that drives me crazy.

I have learned about replacement behaviors so that Ryan can still communicate with me, but in more appropriate ways. However, there are days when he is just a bu** though, and I know it is beyond whatever limits his disability places on him. Example: when I ask him to clean up sometimes, he will "go limp" and just lay on the floor saying "no". I learned that I have to give him warnings for transitions, so I tell him we will clean up in five minutes (granted he has no concept of time, but he knows that means "soon"). Then, when the timer goes off, he says "no" before I even tell him to get started (stinker). So, he understands what is going on. I anticipate the negative behaviors in certain situations simply because I know what pushes his buttons, so I try to head things off. There are days I will make a game of it, but I'm sure you all have those days when you just want to get it done.

I have pulled my hair out over so many "issues" over the last 6 years that I only have about three left. I don't know if I'm making sense, but I'm wondering if there are any other bald parents out there struggling with this. Seems like there are no clear answers, and everything requires a different strategy and boy it's gets me tired constantly "thinking" about it. I think about those people who struggle with major medical issues on top of what I'm talking about... geeze, how do they handle it all???

[MB]

Jodi,

Hang in there!

MB

[christie]

JODI,

OMG girl I can soooo relate and when Chris was younger OMG I was at my wits end and actually went to a Professor that specializes in Behaviors.

First thing this guy said to me is OK, tell me what is going on?? Well he asked and I went on and on and on bout lots, LOL After I finished he said K, what is the worst thing Chris is doing out of all that? Hmmm well back then it was the limp out and lay on the ground So he suggested to me to work on that behavior and let the others go for a bit. He suggested to me that all that were close to or working with Chris had to do the same as me and everyone had to be consistent. So we tried, we used time out for every time he pulled this limp on the ground thing and OMG girl at first YIKES I literally had to hold him in the chair for the time out. Was not fun, not at all Even if he pulled this limp stuff and say the buss pulled up and was waiting I had to put him in time out, stressed me more then Chris LOL BUT I wouldn't let Chris see that I was stressed and I also cut the time out a bit shorter say when the bus was waiting, so that not everyone was paying for his behavior, KWIM Any way that really worked not right away, took some major times before Chris got to the point that all I had to say was "You want Time Out"?? and he would say NO and his behavior changed right then and there. Then once we conqured that behavior we went on to work with the next one I felt was important at the time.

I always look at when to discipline as if I wouldn't like any other child doing such things then why would I want Chris KWIM.

Chris is one that has and still needs dicipline BUT I am here to say even with my wild character it has gotten lots better

Not sure if any of this will help you, just thought I would share ~

HUGS to you.

CC

[ALLISA]

Jodi....I hear you loud and clear !

It is soo difficult to know how much they can handle, how high should I set my expectations ? Am I allowing her to "misbehave"?

I went to a meeting last month at our Special Ed PAC here in town,,,,,they promised to have theapists, counselors & SPecial Ed teachers to handle questions on discipline & behavior issues.....well I had plenty of questions !! LOL

I was greatly disppointed I am sorry to say...questions could be sumbitted ahead of time via e-mail which I did and they read ALL of mine and tried to answer.....but what I walked away with was that there are just no easy answers at all.

In my mind....all my questions melt down to one basic inquiry....how do I get her to mind me ? Understand I siad "No" and respond to that....wether we are talking about hair pulling, staying in bed, not eating sand/dirt from ground, throwing things,etc, etc,etc.

But they look at each individual act as it's own entity and needs to be broken down ,analyzed, and proper "steps" put into place to alleviate.

Therefore getting her to stop pulling hair and getting her to stop emptying the bookshelf of every book we own aren't realted to "the professionals"....to me they are one in the same.....I said "no" therefore she shouldn't do it !!

But they seemed perplexed that I lumped them all together and thought they were related

So although I have no great answers for you..... I just wanted to say I know just where you are coming from....My Erin is 5...... and man, every day I question myself & how I am discipling her.... for the most part I think I do okay....though I know her brothers feel she "gets away with tooooo much".

But discpling a little girl who isn't upset over any consequences is almost impossible !! Short of spanking, which I don't condone ( not to start a huge dispute )

I do feel as she gets older, it is getting a little easier...she does get sad when I use my "angry" tone...but timeouts don't fase her.

They did talk a lot about postitive re-inforcements at this meeting and talking over issues & problem solving with the child....but Erin is too young for that.....when she does something good I do tell her I am happy at ther and she does the "happy" sign to me.....so she defintiely gets that ...because she claps for herself !! LOl

Best of luck & if you find a magic answer...LET ME KNOW !!

Allisa

[Kristen]

Jodi - my guy is much younger, but he can be such a ARGH! that the PT flipped out a few months ago about him not walking (he was refusing to do it - all the skills were there, but he would pull his legs up and kick them and swing when she would hold him under the arms - smart, funny, but not productive) and she got a behavioral therpist to evaluate him. The behavior lady was like I'm here WHY? She thought it was funny that he was going to such great and creative lengths to avoid the whole thing (feet on either side of the treadmill letting it run between, would start coughing when you held him by one hand so you'd stop and hold him - you name it) BUT it went to show that when you're exposed to it all the time and see it all the time that it's easy to be like what is up with him? I totally feel for ya. I tell him on many ocasions he can make the Pope swear and believe me, if he saw him in action some days, he would!

[Jessie]

Yes, yes, yes, I think this is what I was trying to get at in my post that confused everyone, even me ;D

When I know that Jason understands the right thing to do and there is no reason why he should have an attitude, why does he revert back to acting like he doesn't understand and do the 'limp' thing? For instance, he knows to take his shoes and coat off as soon as he gets in the house, hang the coat up and put the shoes in the closet. Last weekend we came home from a movie (the three of us were having a great day) and he just stood in the entryway refusing to take his shoes off. Well, that ticked off his dad because he was just standing there with this blank look and would not react to what Brian was telling him to do. It was like he zoned out or something. It escalated into a time out, which didn't work, to the point where Brian just took off his shoes for him and made him go to his room. It was very weird.

So . . . is it a huge deal that he didn't take his shoes off? No, but the point was he was being so adament about NOT doing was he was supposed to. His behavior was more the issue than the not taking his shoes off. Why did he do that? I tell you, it's just an absolute normal thing for him to come in and take his shoes off and take care of them, we don't even have to tell him to do that anymore, he just does it. Why did he have to be such a but* about it? Is that the Ds or is that normal boy stuff??? Is that just a power struggle, even though there really was no reason for it?

And, the whole going limp thing drives both of us nuts. He's getting too big to physically move him or pick him up and it's rather embarrassing when we are at a relatives house and he pulls a stunt like this. Especially because most of our wonderful, supportive families (they really are!), tend to baby him and treat him like his cognitive level rather than like a big kid and do not like to see him getting into trouble.

I don't think there is a clear answer to this, it's just dealing with it as it comes up - thank goodness it happens less and less frequently.


Jessie

[Kristen]

Um, he's 12. He might just be good at it.

Just because he's cognitively as in on the piece of paper that tests his IQ this is what it says does NOT mean that his entire reasoning and reations are there, too. I am srue you know that, but I, personally take the view that something is related to DS as a last resort because in my mind that's saying they have no control over it and I think that there are lots of little manipluators out there (my own included!) who would just LOVE to get out of it that easy! I think of DS as a modifier and something to account for if there is consistantly a problem in a certain area. Then it becomes ok, well, if this is the situation, what do we do from here about it with all things considered?

Ryan sounds like a great kid. He just likes testing!

[Jodi]

I've taken a sick comfort in your reponses (LOL)!! Allisa... I was getting used to the all the books being on the floor!!

I do learn a lot from Ryan. I just had a thought... next time my boss askes me to do something, think I'll just "go limp" on my desk!!! ;D

[Chester]

I hear ya!

Our little guy just turned three, and pretty much with his birthday came the "testing" stages...ie looking you right in the eyes and pulling your hair, looking you right in the eyes while you're saying no as he climbs up the stairs faster and faster, etc, etc, etc.

I learned really fast that he thrives on the drama. The louder and more dramatic the "no" or "stop" is (His eyes light up when his 8 year old sister screams when he pulls her hair, or he throws his 9 year old brothers lego masterpiece on the floor....sigh) the more he LOVES to do it.

We've had a really good week, but I've decided to swing the drama the other way. The second before he places his little foot on the steps, I sign "stop" and say it in a normal voice then as soon as he turns to look at me, I make a big huge "hooray" dance complete with clapping and jumping up and down, which he just can't pass up. As he walks over to me I tell him what a good boy he is for listening, and thank you for stopping, etc etc. It is very tiring, but to put the "hooray" dance into a positive light, I'm thinking of it as an exercise program.

I do think a lot of the negative behavior is for attention and drama and having some control.

[kellie]

Chester

I'm laughing about the cheering and hooraying for Jake when he listens. I do the exact same thing for my 2 year old only to get him to eat. It's kind of embarassing in restaurants though but I do what I have to do!

Kellie