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Post by christie on Feb 19, 2004 21:48:25 GMT -5
Hmmmm do you want the testing done??? Is it mandatory??? Will Maggie lose out on services if you don't have it done??? I personally woudn't be afraid at this young age what her IQ is Geez to be honest I don't know Christopher's IQ or Kodi Lee's IQ and both are in GREAT placements ;D
I will tell you that Kodi Lee is a freshman in High School and in all Honor classes and like I said I have nooo idea what her IQ is, I am sure I can find out if I cared to BUT I remember sooo well her second grade teacher saying to me "These tests are SILLY on such young ones" She is doing just GREAT. Chris is too in his school ;D
Till recently, in New Jersey it was mandatory to have testing on our kids, meaning special ed every 3 years, not soooo anymore, now we have the options if we want or don't want. Chris was up for testing this year and I opted for nooo testing BUT if at any time I change my mind before the 3 year mark I can request.
Sorry for the ramble, what I gues I am saying is it necessary to have Maggie tested ??
I also wanted to add that I personally woudn't worry that these tests get put in her record cause she will excel as she grows
Hope that made sense, I am having trouble saying what I am thinking LOL that happens to me lots
CC
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Post by MaggiesMom on Feb 19, 2004 22:53:37 GMT -5
CC and others...
No, Maggie doesn't have to have these tests done. They asked me if I wanted them done to help see what services she needs.
What brought this on is this...Almost exactly one year ago, I went to visit the preschool where Maggie would be enrolled. I asked about hearing impaired services, they said "we don't do that". LOL
Since then, I've been through lots of meeting, one botched IEP which I refused, mediation, and working on the second IEP just to get her started. Maggie has to do homebound therapies and the preschool teacher will come here since she hasn't had her heart surgery yet. That won't be till she's 4 or 5. Till then, she has an awful time just getting colds, so we dont want to risk pnuemonia.
The school and I agree on PT, OT and the preschool teacher. But they still don't want to provide the hearing therapy she has received since she was born through Early Intervention. And they're right...the state DOE doesn't require it. But, I think it's appropriate and obviously Early Intervention did too, or we wouldn't have had it.
The school assessed Maggie last spring for the eligibility meeting. That was fine. Well, as fine as it can be. You know how wonderful it makes you feel when your child can't do anything they ask them to do! In a new room, with new toys everywhere, and a new person asking questions with pictures from the 1950's!
Then in August, the PT and OT assessed her for the IEP meeting. I had to set up the assessment then as the school wasn't going to get it done in time. But I did it.
Now, they've known since August when I refused the first IEP and opted to stay with EI until Maggie was 3, that we were going to have to do an IEP in February right? You'd think they would have new goals and new assessments in place right? NOOOOOO! I had to call, ask for new goals and new assessments. Once again, I had to schedule the appointments because the school never did it. And now, the IEP has been cancelled several times due to snow.
During all this, the teacher and therapists keep saying, "Oh, we don't need to reassess Maggie, we'll just amend the IEP as we go along." Well am I wrong to think that that's backwards as to how they are supposed to do it?
That's when they offered the psychological tests. They said it would be a better gage than the Brigansk (sp?) that the preschool teacher uses since the B is language based.
They have no clue how to deal with a deaf child, there is no teacher for the hearing impaired in our county. They get away with this because there is a regional program. Yet, the regional program does not have the type of therapy Maggie needs either.
Sorry I got on my soap box! Maybe this helps you understand why I asked this question. I'm about as confused as they come with all this school stuff.
I have researched, I have my IDEA notes and I've paid my $400 to the lawyer seeking legal info. But we'll see how far it gets me come Monday. That's our new IEP date. Two weeks after my daughter turned 3 and has gone without services!
I personally, don't care for standardized tests. I am a test administrator and I know what they ask of the older kids. It's down right goofy at times. But, I want to do what is going to help Maggie the most so I'm trying to keep an open mind.
I knew asking you all would help get a well rounded point of view.
Thanks!
Robin M - Maggie's mom
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Post by Debi on Feb 20, 2004 18:45:53 GMT -5
Robin, a couple of reactions and some thoughts... don't know if this would be any news to you. First of all you are right, that is a little backwards to amend the IEP as they go along It may be all well and good for them to say that they don't need to re assess Maggie at this time but she is due (at three) for her triannual anyway. Have you asked for an independent evulation? I think you are well within the area where you can ask and they must pay for a completely independent evual..(which would be at say, a regional center ; both you and the school agree). School, however, pays for it all. The good points of this is that it may give you some ideas and ammunition to use. (Downside is that schools are not legally obligated to accept the recommendations of the IE). I don't blame you for being frustrated.. you have carried the banner on this very well but I always gets SO mad at schools when they have a child with dual DX like deafness or blindness and DS. The funding stream is very clear and the legal access to education has been upheld time and again. Getting services shouldn't be thiis hard.. well I don't have to tell you that. Not at all sure why they are talking psychological tests for Maggie at this stage.. probably more of a holding action than anything
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Post by christie on Feb 20, 2004 22:25:02 GMT -5
WOW ROBIN, MEGA POSITIVE thoughts going out your way girl for Monday Have you asked for an independent eval in referenece to the thearpy you are requesting for Maggie ?? Hmmmm I hope I am getting this right but Maggie is getting this therapy now RIGHT?? Soooo why can't they just continue that at the districts expense?? Am I missing something here?? You are one very AMAZING advocate for you daughter girl, HUGS to you and don't let them get you down
CC
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Post by Kristin on Feb 20, 2004 23:30:35 GMT -5
Our district tried to give Clarice an IQ test at age 3, but she was not verbal enough for them to get a reliable test. They just tested her last month and gave us an IQ score of 79. She has lost no services. When I asked them about the lack of a MR designation, they replied that because of her diagnosis of DS she would always receive certain services. The psychologist also told us that IQ scores are not good predictors of people with down syndrome, because over time the scores can vary by up to 40 points! The school used the tests (Leiter International Performance Scale-Revised, Brigance Diagnostic Inventory of Early Development-revised, Social Skills Rating System, and Adaptive Behavior Assessment System - Second Edition (ABAS-II) to get a better idea of how well Clarice does. The school constantly underestimates her ability to learn. We have always fought for her to be in an academically enriched environment. She is in a special day class, but it has a high emphasis on academics at her pace. In fact, at the IEP they gave us more OT and Speech without us having to ask for it. They recommended Clarice advance to 1st grade because she learned too much in her kindergarten class to repeat, and they want her in a longer academic day. (Clarice 's birthday is in October, so she is on the young end of her class.) Clarice is not going to function academically in a regular 1st grade class, but we're pleased that she is in classes with a greater emphasis on obtaining skills for independant living. She goes to the school's regular daycare and participates in all of the school-wide events and field trips. Perhaps the use of the IQ varies from state to state. I was pleased to get the information to get a better idea of what she can do at this time. In fact we concentrate on what the tests tell us she is capable of, where she needs more help, and less on a number. Luckily, our IEP team feels that way too. Good luck! Kristin
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Post by MaggiesMom on Feb 20, 2004 23:48:02 GMT -5
The interesting thing is...the school offered to have Maggie's preassessment and post assessment done by her current AV therapist. (That's her hearing therapy) The school's therapist had never even met Maggie until I invited her to observe an AV therapy session. The school's SLP has not assessed Maggie. But she said she was going to write the goals and objectives based off of what she observed at the session.
Those assessments were to be part of a "package" they offered as part of "transitional" services to get Maggie out of her current therapy and into their regular Speech therapy program. Which is totally not appropriate.
I keep being told that it's common professional courtesy for outgoing therapist to pass on "exit" information to incoming therapist. Thus the new therapist just reword the former goals and objectives and use them as their own.
I asked our AV therapist not to do that so I could prove that the SLP knows nothing about this type of therapy. But, now the school wants to pay our AV therapist to use her goals and objectives for Maggie. I feel like it's a catch 22...if Maggie continues to see the AV therapist as well as the SLP, I'll have no way of proving that any progress Maggie makes is not due to her seeing the SLP.
The lawyer said to not let Maggie go to her hearing therapy for 6 months, then we'd have a case. I understand that, but since my daughter is already 1 to 2 years behind in language skills, I don't want to add another 6 months to that! Unacceptable.
They have me on that one and I know it. But I don't feel like it would be responsible to my daughter to let her "fail". I know that's how the school system often functions...don't fix it unless it's broke...but I don't want to wait that long. She's already delayed or she wouldn't qualify for the program.
It just gets down right rediculous at times. I often feel that if I could take all the time I spend fighting the school and work with Maggie, she wouldn't need therapy! But then again, I don't know the theory like they do.
I don't think getting an outside assessment done is going to help since the school is actually agreeing to it. It may be that at some point I'll have to get an assessment completely apart from our therapist and the school. But if the school can't be held to it...what good is it? Would it help my point in due process?
The bottom line is that until someone changes the regulations for the state, I don't think things are going to change. They are going to stand on those regs. They've quoted them to be so often, I can say them in my sleep.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Robin M - Maggie's mom
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Post by christie on Feb 21, 2004 0:08:22 GMT -5
YES ROBIN I do believe an independent eval will help as it helped me tons on getting Chris an Augmentative Communication Devise and a personal sound field system. Both of which my district refused at first My district argued both request, I said fine and put n writing a request for an independent eval. at their expense and both times after the independent eval we got what I requested for Chris ;D
I do agree with you with the amount of time wasted arguing over all this sooo much could have been done for the child
I don't know bout your district, but mine for sure loves to play the stalling(sp?) game at the child's expense
Sad to say, but in my experience until you can prove the child is not getting what is appropirate you don't always have a good chance Personally I think sadly, your attorney may be right.
Best of Luck Girl, I am rooting for you on Monday
CC
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Post by justinsmom on Feb 21, 2004 0:14:00 GMT -5
Robin just a little tid bit here but we actually got the school psychologist and Justin's EI teacher to come to the house for the psych eval. I was afraid Justin would be too distracted at the school with the new toys and things as you mentioned not to mention the outdated pics this guy had. When he pulled them out and Justin had no idea I brought out MY books and had him point things out, also Justin wouldn't have anything to do with some of the psychologists testing things like blocks he wouldn't use the evaluators but he sure built the heck out of his own . As for the independent eval. I have been told by several advocates that it is a wise route to go how can I put this delicately, hmmmmm well basically they said that the schools psychologists' at times may fudge the results for lets say keeping the child in special ed to get the extra funding and not have to pay for aides and things if they were placed in the general curriculum. Although the schools don't have to accept the individual eval. look out if there are discrepencies in the testing results I'm talking noticeable ones, let the questions start and someone best have the answers . Good luck Monday and let us know how things went ours isn't until May but we do have a home visit sometime next month during the week of the 15th to discuss next years options grrrrrrrrrr. I have an option for them he won't be there
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Post by MichelleW on Feb 22, 2004 1:42:57 GMT -5
Robin, are you in the US? I think stay-put should be in effect, and your daughter's services should not be interrupted while awaiting implementation of her IEP. Check with your attorney about this. My younger son went two months after he turned three before we could come to an agreement on IEP goals (he has autism), and the school district paid for his early intervention (Regional Center) program to continue during this time.
Also, No Child Left Behind means your daughter will be tested along with the rest of the school to meet federal requirements in reading and math once she starts 3rd grade. The school should be motivated to provide a plan to bring her as close to grade level as possible over the next 5-6 years. NCLB also calls for "best practices" and "highly qualified teaching staff." I'll bet they are not quoting THOSE regs to you! Frankly, most school districts haven't caught on yet how NCLB is going to effect the IEP process. Ask your attorney to look into this - there's good information on Reed Martin's and the Wrightslaw websites.
Very best wishes for your meeting Monday!
Michelle W in California
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Post by MaggiesMom on Feb 23, 2004 1:53:38 GMT -5
Thanks Michelle!
I have quoted so much "legal stuff" already, I'm blue in the face from lack of air!
But, I'm taking my stack of legal docs back tomorrow and we'll see where that gets me.
I have not requested "stay put" as we agree on most of the therapies. It's just this one we can't seem to get past. I'm going to approve the ones we do agree on tomorrow. And they wrote me yesterday to say they are going to provide 5 sessions of the 6 we agreed on. We we'll see if I can get that last one out of them.
Keep praying for us! I'm having to go it alone as my mom is sick and can't keep the kids, so Tim has to stay home with them. I'm nervous about that!
Take care. Robin M - Maggie's mom
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Post by Debi on Feb 23, 2004 18:53:42 GMT -5
Robin M just sending you l ots of positive vibes and everything else that I can possibly send thro cyber space lol. Hope today went well and that you can post up as to how it went soon!!
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Post by MaggiesMom on Feb 24, 2004 1:36:51 GMT -5
How many ways can you spell Ugh?!!
I felt so beat up when I left that meeting today. After I left, I cried for an hour. Just too much time and effort put into something to feel like no one hears what I'm saying.
I think we have good OT, PT and early childhood services in place. The feeding and speech they offered continue to be with the SLP that has no experience in what we need. The good news is she's the most qualified in the county. The bad news is she's not adequately trained at all. She is by state and county standards, just not by those who certify AV therapists.
They wouldn't put her hearing therapy in her IEP. They just call it speech services. I did get them to pay for 6 sessions with the therapist she has now, but they say that's it.
I don't think I have the energy to keep fighting them. At this point, I've spent $400 talking to a lawyer and we can't afford to keep doing that. Going to court is the only way to challenge the state regulations.
I guess it's either live with it, or move to NC, OH, or one of the many other states that do recognize this therapy as necessary.
It's frustrating.
Thanks for listening and for all your ideas and suggestions.
Robin M - Maggie's mom
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Post by Lynn on Feb 24, 2004 14:48:07 GMT -5
Oh Robin, I am so sad it did not go your way, or Maggie's That is ridiculous what you are having to go through to get what Maggie really needs. I am soooooo sorry that Virginia stinks!!! We had our first meeting with the school system here and it went fine, we'll see, haven't signed an IEP yet, Caroline just turned 2. We are thinking about letting her go for part of the day on Wednesday's to Marion Primary and get her pt there. EI around here now STINKS and no therapists are coming to the house anymore, so at least she would get some therapy on Wednesday's. Unfortunately the school system is without an OT again - ridiculous - same company that had the EI contract and so Caroline hasn't had OT since September! I thought getting out of EI and going with the schools would at least guarantee her PT and OT and hopefully speech but who knows when an OT will be hired. Oh well, that's what happens when you live in a rural area that few people would be willing to move to! I wish you the best of luck and hope Maggie ends up getting everything she needs. Hope to see you soon!! Lynn
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Post by Debi on Feb 24, 2004 21:34:35 GMT -5
Robin M: Just wanted to send you a cyber pat on the back for all your hard work. I'm sorry that your meeting didn't go better. I DO think that all this energy and work will pay off for Maggie. I know that it's very hard to go into those meetings and feel like the only person on the planet who knows these things (Am I the only person who has READ this? has been a common thought in my head at IEP's ) but you WILL use all this and at some point it WILL benefit Maggie. Heck , if all else fails just keep calling IEP meetings and let them know you aren't going away I'm sure Maggie already knows this, but she has a GREAT Mom!!
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Post by MaggiesMom on Feb 25, 2004 1:10:54 GMT -5
Thanks girls! I still feel beat, but it's better today than yesterday.
We start the parade of 5 therapies a week this Thrusday. We went from having 1 or 2 a week to 5 so this should be interesting. I'm not convinced that more is better.
Take care.
Robin M - maggie's mom
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