What do you think about this one??

[PaigesMom]

Ok, this sort of kind of goes along with some of the other recent threads that have been posted about feelings getting hurt and ingorance.

Yesterday evening, I went to a toddler/young child gymnastics center that has been boasting that they have a program for children with special needs - special needs half day camp for kids 2.5+, run by a special ed teacher, certified/trained PT, OT, blah blah blah. Paige is in extended school year, but has 4 weeks off in August, so I was thinking about using my Family Driven Services and seeing if MH/MR would pay for 2 weeks of half day camp, 3 days per week.

My appointment was with the Owner/Special Ed Teacher and it went sort of like this - I walk in with Paige, "Hi, you must be Paige" - Looks at me, "Well, she's certainly not profoundly Downs". I say (totally caught off guard now and starting to steam inside, but keeping my cool - this is supposed to be a professional, you know?) "What do you mean" - "Well, she walks and she doesn't have that big stuck out belly that most "Downy's" have and you cant even tell by her face", I responded, "Well, she certainly does have low muscle tone, and actually PT is the area in which she requires most of her work, so that is why I am interested in this camp, your brochure says that you work on all gross motor skills and you will work off an IEP" - She says "my sister in law just had a "Downy" baby 5 days ago, and he is SOOOOOOOO PROFOUND", I said at that time, "Look, I'm not sure where you are getting your information or how, especially being a certified special education teacher, but there is no information out there that says whether a 5 day old baby, or a 4 year old little girl is profound or not, I'm not sure where you're coming from", She says, "Well, his face is so profound that there is no question that he has Down Syndrome and you can barely see anything about him but the Down" - I said, "can you tell me about your program", the whole time, I barely got anything about her regarding the program, all I got was that how they have 350 kids with special needs and 917 kids who are "typs" (and this is what she referred to them as, I assume she was shorting typically developing), and that Paige would have a one on one aid and there is 1 adult to 4 kids. And she just kept on going on and on about how Paige was so "high functioning" and so "much different" than most of the other kids she has taught and how she was "just so cute that she might have to steal her".

NOW, I left with a very uneasy feeling. My husband is VERY laxadasical when it comes to stuff like this and it doesn't bother him. So when I told him, he says "who cares, what about the program?", So, since I dont really have any new info about the program, he says why dont I go back another time and observe a summer class in process.

Here's my thing, sometimes I think I let what others say immediately put a negative spin on things. I thought about Uno and all of these conversations on why people say things the way they do. I am a firm believer that if you dont know what to say or dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything. However, why the heck would this special ed teacher go on and on like this - to me it was very unprofessional.

So lay it on me, what do you all think?

Ignore the comments, go back and revisit the camp OR

Forget it and look at something else based on this womans initial impression.

I just cant get over thinking "ok, she says this to me, what will she say/do to my daughter or those around my daughter"

Debbie

[meghans_mom]

holy cow....!
first i would take a look at the program again...look and see how the kids interact w/ the teachers/aides and each other, what they do, how they are treated. then decide about the program.
as far as the owner/instructor goes - i think you handled yourself very well, even though I don't think she HEARD you :-D
Sounds like she had her own preconcieved notions about Paige and her new nephew (niece?) and wasn't going to change them.
If you decide to NOT enroll Paige in the program, I'd write a letter and let this woman know what you thought of what she said and how you were treated.
Not that she said any bad things about paige...but the woman is an educator for God's sake. And sounded a little wacky, to say the least.
I have a friend..who is also a special ed teacher - and the mom of a daughter with special needs. She says to me sometimes, oh you'll see, when meghan is in high school, she'll be going out with her Downy friends, etc etc etc.
And I didn't know what to say...but it surprised me to hear that term, especially from her (being a teacher) although I know it's accepted someplaces, I don't really like it too much.
But that's off the subject. This woman sounds a bit off..as I said, but don't base the quality of the program on her attitude or what she said. it may be a terrific program and this woman just doesn't relate well.
but i think you handled it great...i don't know what i would have done if i had been in the same situation.
let us know what happens. laurie

[christie]

Hmmmm, K, you asked what we might think...

Well, I have to say if this is how the owner/special ed teacher handles herself I would be very fearful what nonsense she might accept from ones that work under her

Yes, I agree many in this world have no or little information about DS but this woman works with these children and obviously doesn't know a thing I certainly wouldn't want my child in that kind of atmosphere but hey thats just my thoughts.

I would definitely look around and see what else may be available to you. I am a true believer a teacher can make or break the program and this program sounds a bit broke by how you describe this lady

Best of Luck to you, I am sure there are other GREAT programs out there for your Paige

CC

[Chris]

All I can say is, her poor sister in law! Seems to me that this woman needs sensitivity training. I would go back and observe the teachers working with the kids. You may even want to do it several times. While you are there, chat with other parents of kids with special needs and see what they think of the program. The parents are always the best resource. I guess the most important thing to do is trust your gut. It's hard to believe that some people are so ignorant!

By the way, I had never heard of the term, Downy.

Chris

[Emilysmom]

Debbie~ I'd have so much more patience with this situation if this woman was a stranger or family member who had no prior experience with children with Down syndrome. As a special ed teacher, I'd think she would keep up on all sorts of things.....namely appropriate ways to deal with family members, appropriate terminology, etc! When you consider that Down syndrome is one of the most common reasons for a child to be in a special ed classroom, this woman has probably had plenty of experience.........she seems to have failed to develop a good way to deal with parents, and hasn't kept up with correct terminology to say the least! That whole encounter would have made me very uncomfortable!
You know, I'll bet her sister probably is so relieved to know this woman has experience and will be able to help her with the new baby.......not realizing that her attitude is a bit outdated!
One positive thing though......with as many students as she says there are in that program, she probably has a number of teachers. I'd be interested in seeing how THEY interact with the kids and what the program really consists of. I think I'd go back again and see it for myself, and make my decision based on the teacher's behaviors. The teachers would most likely be the ones who would have the most contact with Paige. Maybe you would develop a relationship with this woman while Paige is there and can HELP her with her preconceived ideas.
Susan#nosmileys

[rickismom]

USSUALLY staff with such attitudes have LOW expectations, and there is a high likelyhood that they will let your daughter get away with atrocious behavior. (Which all kids do at times, but if corrcted, they hopefully stop- and if not corrcted, they will do more of the same.... )
I would trust your hunch. Once I put Ricki in a playgroup that the attitude was similar, and it was the worst!
It could be that the staff are pretty independent, and don't have this attitude- but it is likely to have trickled down.
Also consider that if she is such a "darling", the other "special" kids my be doing things that you don't wasnt her to imitate.
Even if you DO go back to observe, see what else you have in the area....

[didmyheartgood]

First of all, I want to say I am sorry that this happened to you. I too, would have been floored by this teachers remarks. Don't ya just want to slap some sense into certain people?

If this "special ed" teacher is the one in charge of this program, then I would seek out other options. I have to agree with CC on this one. I wouldn't want my child in an atmosphere that referred to him as a "Downy".....The way I read it, it sounds like she was actually trying to compliment Paige in her ignorance. If she will say that in your first meeting of trying to get you to enroll Paige, what will she say in her everyday normal instruction with the kids?Or to Paige directly? Most people would be on their best behavior.

If there are no other programs available, I would make it clear what your expectations of her are. (the teacher, not Paige) I would have a private little heart to heart with this woman, especially since she didn't seem to HEAR you at this meeting.. I would also make it a point to sit in on classes announced and unannounced.


let us know how it turns out.......Sending you both hugs.
Kim

[Debi]

I am trying to be calm Debbie I really am lol but as someone who works in a school I would have really lost it if I had had a conversation like that with someone who is supposed to be a sp. ed. teacher.
Personally...... I would check out the OTHER options first ~~then go back and look at the program in action. As others have said, in practice the program may be great and just right for your Paige but based on how poorly she listened and presented herself, I would really have to wonder You will also need to ask yourself how often you want to be in a conversation of this type!!
Anyone who presumes to know how invovled a child is based on newborn features or one meeting needs to go into another line of business, just my humble opinion.

[MaggiesMom]

I think I'd ask to see her credentials and see what century she got her SPED degree!!! LOL I can't imagine some being that ignorant of current "politically correct" terminology and being in the school system. Then again...

I have a dear friend who is a lead teacher in a SPED program. She constantly makes comments about "Down's Kids" and who functions at what level. She's also the one who complains constantly about her honor roll children who have "problems" in school. Ugh! I know everyone family has issues to deal with, but sometimes I want to scream..."Get a clue!"

Personally, I couldn't put my child in the type of situation you described. Knowing that managers usually hire "like minded" people is enough to know that there's more where she came from. I don't want someone being condescending to my child all day. I want support and challenges to meet expectations.

I know you'll figure out the best thing for Pagie. But I'm a firm believer that you should ALWAYS listen to that little voice in your head! It's there for a reason.

Take care.

Robin M - Maggie's mom

[momofrussell]

hmmm...LOL I agree with Meghan's mom

Is she going to be the teacher? Or someone else? Although she does sound a bit wacky, I'd go back and observe how she or who ever will be teaching Paige. And try and base your decision on that. Provided you REALLY don't feel comfy anymore around that gal. I put Russell in a toddler gymnastics type place with typical kids and I observed first before I paid. Actually they INCOURAGED me to bring Russell first and see how we "fit". We loved it.. and I based it on that.

We aren't going to agree with how others perceive or think about DS... spec ed teacher or not. She is a bit off in her thinking, but obviously she has her own opinions and terms LOL. That is just who she is. Try and let that part roll off ya! I think Paige will have a WONDERFUL time!!! At least she didn't say anything BAD about Paige, that would put a different spin on things.

My best friend's neighbor has a daughter w/DS. She has ALWAYS said things like Downy or Downer or what ever. It doesn't bother me in the least. To her, and me, it was like a little nick name. She was THRILLED when I had Russell. Jenny, her daughter, was SO severely handicapped and much older than Russell. And we were all very close before they moved. So she was really the only person in my mind that had a child w/DS that I knew. So her downisms didn't bother me LOL.

OH... and since we are speaking of wacky spec ed people I have a good one to make you all laugh. One of my husbands good friend was having a baby with his girlfriend. His friend was wacky anyway, and she was the PERFECT fit for him. She wasn't a spec ed teacher but worked in the field at a school. Maybe an aide, I don't remember, but had schooling nontheless and worked with all sorts of kids, even kids w/DS. Well, we gave them their baby shower and another gal their asked about Russell. She was VERY young and young minded... asked how Russell "got" DS LMAO! I actually love when they ask... But.. before I had a chance to answer, miss pregnant gal (I forgot her name) chimed in and said it was HERIDITARY AND PASSED ON BY KEVIN MY HUSBAND!!! So, we already had Regan, and she said, so, Regan isn't his then?? (well, she really wasn't but THAT wasn't why LOL) I tried to then explain how Russell REALLY "got" DS. As basic but precise as possible, trying not to loose her LOL. Then pregnant girl chimed in again... "Yeah, but didn't you have the tests done, because it came from Kevin???" HUH???
And.. I very matter of factly said again, it did NOT come from Kevin it just happened. She didn't buy it... and it was very sad. Because she was IN the field and I was JUST a mother (I guess she didn't know I went to college too LOL) the young gal that questioned it BELIEVE HER.. not me... it was a mute point. I walked away!!!

Nutter than a fruit cake I tell ya!

Good luck!!

a.

[PaigesMom]

Thanks everyone for your comments ;D

I went back to this place unannounced to see what goes on, and without Paige. The owner was surprised to see me and was hoping that I was there to get her registered. She seemed taken aback when I told her I just stopped in to see if I could take a peek at a class in action. She said sure and she walked me back.

This was a 3-4 year old class and what I saw astounded me from a liability standpoint only. I saw 3 year olds jumping on trampolines unassisted and with no spotter, no one even near them, they were jumping out of control like little kids would. I saw kids jumping off of balance beams and climbing on them from the middle rather than using the steps at the end, falling off as they were trying. The TWO "teachers" (one of which I found out was the owners daughter - 14 years old and having no experience with kids in this environment and was just working to help pay for a 180.00 pair of sneakers she wanted -by her own admission) were over in the corner laughing and joking. The other "teacher" was 18 and just started 2 weeks prior. The kids in the "class" were just running amuck and SURPRISE, SURPRISE, there were NO SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS IN THIS CLASS - you know, the special needs class that she was boasting about!!!!!

She apologized to me for what I saw and indicated that she just lost therapists, blah blah blah, and shared with me that the Department of MH/MR just registered 31 Autistic/PDD kids with her and said that they said to her "if she wanted them" - being the saint she makes herself out to be she says "well, of course I WANT them".

So, I guess I have my answer. All things aside, if this is the way they run their program, it's not where my daughter needs to be.

Debbie

[christie]

DEBBIE, I am soooo glad you went back to observe, not for nothing but this woman sounded like a nut from the get go and now you know for sure this place is not the place. I am sure there are much much better places out there for your precious Paige

I am sorry you had to experience this at all but sooo much better now then after Paige had joined there.

CC

[momofrussell]

Sad answer, but you did get one. I am surprised too. Where I took Russell , we (the teachers and I) didn't know where to place Russell but told me about the mommy and me class and the typical 3 yr old class that HAS to be able to follow directions and only has 1 teacher. Now, some kids in the 3 yr old class CAN have a shadow if needed, but it was NOT a place for Russell. We opted for the mom and me class.. or parent participation if you will. There was only 1 teacher and then the parents helped out with the kids. Now, I can say that the kids were welcome to explore and do some of which you were talking about. Going on balance beams and jumping off freely, not following sequence, being obnoxious LOL.. (Russell was one of those). The teacher kept things in a certain pattern but then gave them some free time.. then back to the routine... it was structured unstructure if that makes sense. BUT, the parents were ALL there and helping guide their kids. Russell was the ONLY kid with a disability in the class. He kind of did his own thing at times too. He didn't follow suit and even though I guided him, he did what he wanted.

I hope I am making sense... in my rambly way LOL

It really sounds like it's not the place for you guys, but there might be something else out there similiar. Russell loved the class... !!!!

A.

[rickismom]

OMG I don't believe that people can get away with that!....!

[Emilysmom]

A~ Probably the reason the class you mentioned worked so well was because of the MOM'S in that classroom......what a great resource for the teacher. With a few mom's in there, it seems that you could afford to have a bit less structure because there were so many more eyes and hands available to keep the kids safe. Sounds like a good class to me!

The class Debbie saw, on the other hand, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen!! And can you imagine adding a few kids with autism in that picture? I know...or think I know...enough about autism to know that a chaotic class setting like that would NEVER be good for them! I think you made the best choice Debbie. You'll know the right classroom when you see it.
Susan