signing question

[Mark]

From what I gather, children with Down syndrome are visual learners and thus benefit well from using signs. I also understand that children with Down syndrome often have difficulty learning complex English grammar. It thus seems to me that the children would benefit not only from learning the words for individual nouns and verbs (milk, more, go, come, etc.) but also more fully grammaticized expressions with signs (i.e., complete sentences, such as "Please put the toy on the ground"), or, at the very least, common grammatical terms, such as "the" or "on".

Has anybody here gone beyond using common words with your child and attempted to use actual sign language sentences or grammatical terms (albeit within your own capacity)? If so, have you used ASL (American Sign Language, which has its own distinct grammar), Signed English (based on English, but a bit simplified; it is sometimes called Pidgin Signed English), or Signing Exact English (which is quite complex as it also includes signs for all the various word endings in English that denote grammatical features; sometimes called Signed Exact English)? Or another system? And what resources did you find helpful for learning any of these sign systems?

Thanks!!
Mark

[Pat]

I used to work at a deaf school so I use signed eng(SE)/exacting signed eng.(ESE) It depends on the age of the child. When mine get a little older I will teach them ESE so they know it, but most of the time I use SE. It helps our children to know signs so they don't get so frustrated. I do sign the whole sentence, but as with all kids they only reply in part when they are young.

[meghans_mom]

Hi Mark & welcome -

we use SEE with my daughter Meghan (3 1/2). She currently knows over 200 signs -- we didn't mean to teach her so many but she just picked them up between school and her therapists, etc. The only things she signs in sentences are songs - such as "Itsy Bitsy Spider", "Mr Sun" etc...
when getting her needs across she usually only uses one or 2 signs together (more drink) (play outside) not full sentences.
From what I understand, you don't really need to teach the child full sentence signing, unless there are other problems - such as hearing impairment where the child may not be able to communicate verbally.
Personally, I wouldn't teach meghan full sentences, although I can understand where it might be desirable. Speech may be delayed but with meghan she has no trouble *most of the time* getting her needs and wants across and I find that she is rarely frustrated because of this. However, she is also becoming quite verbal now and has over 200 words in her spoken vocabulary as well -- so she can handle herself well, but not really put sentences together.
again - just my opinion, but I think that the verb-noun combos will suffice...there are so many other things to work on - it might not be worth the time or effort when your child is young.
again -- welcome! laurie

[MaggiesMom]

Hey Meghan's Mom...I want to know the sign for "play outside!"

I found "outside"....as in pulling your right hand out of your cupped left hand twice. But do you just add "play" in front of that?

I'm new at all this. But, Maggie seems to be picking up on signs pretty well. Eat, more and drink she has down pat.

What are some others that you all suggest we teach first?

Thanks!

[TriciaF]

HI Mark,
Patrick turned 4 on April 21st and his speech has been coming along steadily, so we don't generally teach any new signs. But, we are teaching new signs occasionally to help with the idea of extending sentences. For instance, one of Patrick's goals is to use some 3 word sentences. We started with trying to get him to say, " I want _____(fill in the blank) please. If you said each individual word, he would repeat each one. If you tried to get him to repeat two words....such as "I want", he would then only repeat the last word. To avoid this and to encourage him to say them all by himself, we started to sign the sentence. Now when he comes to ask me for something, I can usually just sign "I" and then he remembers to say the whole sentence. I believe we are using ASL, not really sure about that.

[meghans_mom]

Maggie's Mom - yes....just add the "play" (Letter Y with both hands, and rotate back and forth) in front of outside. Atleast that's what we do here.
As far as adding signs, both meghan and I learned from the therapists as we went, and when I wanted something specific I would ask one of the therapists eg - snow, rain. Things like music, cracker, the animal names (dog, cow, horse, etc), shoes, socks, car, flower, mommy, daddy, book, diaper, colors, shapes, - those just came as we learned. I can't really remember what came after eat, drink, more -- all done or finished, of course -- that one is very important. And stop, too. Sit, stand up, swing, slide. I went with things that Meghan seemed to like to do, or whatever. All of her teachers and therapists use sign constantly so she just picked it up as we went. Also, at holidays and changes of seasons the teachers would send a list of signs home pertinent to those things (eg - thanksgiving - they would sent "brown" "turkey" "indian" etc)

Incidentally we went out today w/ meghan's speech therapist and I asked her what she thought of teaching a child full sentences - she said a child, any child - needs a receptive understanding of over 75 words (I hope i'm repeating this correctly) before they can speak one. And then they need 150-200 words receptively to put 2 words together. So before a child would be able to understand (or repeat) complete signed sentences it would be a great while and would be complicated or confusing for a child to learn. So something like "get red shirt" would be enough rather than teaching "please get the red shirt and put it on" or whatever...because it is very complex to put together a sentence like that and have to remember the order and understand it and all -- anyways, she explained it much better than me, but that was her opinion.

laurie

[rickismom]

You might be interested in knowing that at Down's ed (BIG experts in DS education, they recomend READING (starting EARLY)as the best way to get to grammer study.

[momofrussell]

Well, I don't know what version I use, but I do agree and try simple sentences with Russell. Although Russell does NOT initiate any signs, I try to use things like, HELP PLEASE MOMMY or FOOD PLEASE MOMMY... THANK YOU MOMMY.. when signing TO Russell. I am thinking along the same lines as you Mark, but I guess the beginning thoughts were different. I figure if I was doing signs, Russell should use it in a sentence form.

Russell doens't talk nor communicate much, except for pulling our hand to what ever he needs, but I still use some simple signs for certain things.. in 3 word sentences... who knows if he will ever get it, but I am trying.


And.. I do agree, Rickismom... READING is the BEST way to vocabulary... for any child... I read really early with all my kids... my girls started talking really young and I believe it was the reading! Oh, and their VERY chatty mother!!! LOL

A.

[SID]

HI Mark. Signing is the best thing I feel I have ever done for my son .Cody James is 3 1/2 He has about 100 sign words hard to keep track .He really has a hard time with his fine motor skills so it makes it hard for him .But he signs for just about every thing . He only has about 6 to 10 words that he can say and we understand. But he will put up to three signs together.Like (go see grandma ) Barney on please . I do sign to him in full .We sign SEE I have been teaching myself and him from the book over the last three years .I did go to a class last month and will be taking another in the fall. Sure did help LOL. I will teach Cody sign till he knows it all .Some people only teach it till the child learns to talk but I really want it to be apart of him always. Never know when he may need it . I found flash cards are a big help for him to learn new sign. I get the pictures I need and put the word on it as well and then show him the sign for that picture. DO2LEARN.com is a great place to get the pictures . We use pictures to help others who do not sign to understand his needs as well. This too has been a big help . Good luck hope you find what you are looking for . SID