Ugggghhhh, need some help, please!!!

[laurasnowbird]

Hey gals and guys,

I'm sure this is just a three year old thing, but I am absolutely tearing my hair out here. Ethan has a new habit that is driving me CRAZY. Of course, that's not a drive right now, really only a short putt, LOL, but I need some good advice. Add my hormonal, nearly ready to deliver pregnant self into the equation, and you have a recipe for disaster!

This really has nothing to do with DS, because I have an acquaintance whose typical daughter did this, but Ethan is taking his diapers off in bed. After two weeks of washing the sheet every morning and after every nap, I started putting duct tape over the velcro closures on his diaper. I will never forget the look on Rod's face the morning he went to get Ethan out of bed and I handed him a pair of scissors. He looked at me and said, "What are these for?", and I laughed and said, "You're going to need them to get your son out of his diaper." The previous afternoon he had a stinky diaper and spread it all over his bed and the walls. That was the last straw for me.

Here's my dilemma. When it gets a little colder, I can cut the feet out of his sleeper PJ's and put them on backward to keep him from getting them off, but what do I do for now? Even with the duct tape, he can still get his hands in the diaper and spread his poo around. Due to the nature of his irregular BM's, yesterday just about put me over the edge. TEN stinky diapers, and four trips to the bathtub because he put his hands in the poo and got it everywhere. Here's the kicker: he totally knows that he shouldn't be doing it - yesterday I walked into his room after his nap, and he had it all over again, and his first word to me was "Gross!". Aaaargh! (That was the fourth time yesterday)

He knows better than to be doing this. I don't react emotionally when he does it (until I talk to my husband, LOL!) and the moment he is cleaned up, he goes in time out. He understand the concept of time out, and will sit in the time out chair without argument until I tell him he can get down. But he continues to do it. Am I missing something here? Anybody have an answer for this? MB, where are you? LOL.

[MB]

Sorry to admit, been there done that!

The poop smearing is a means of communication. So, what is he saying to you? My son was gaited in his room for naps. He would wait until the gates went up, poop, take the poop and smear it on the gates. He was the same age as Ethan. Here's what I think my son was trying to say to me.

1. Get these stupid gates down and let me have my freedom.
2. Stop telling me what to do.
3. I like the reaction I get from you, Mom - a scream and sometimes tears.
4. I am punishing you, Mom, for something you did earlier.
5. See, I can do anything I want because everyone blames the Ds instead of me.
6. Let me out of this room, now!

Here's what didn't work:

I would give him a bath and then take him to the neighbors so I could go back and clean/sanitize everything. He would play at the neighbors. I would put him in time out when he got home.

Not only was he getting out of the room, he was going for a playdate. And, he was controlling me.

A psychologist told me to leave him in the room because he was smearing to get out. I thought leaving a developmentally disabled three-year-old sitting in smeared poop was a recipe for a visit from Family Services.

Here's what worked.

I bought a second set of gates. I would remove the smeared gates and replace them immediately with the clean set. I would clean the carpet and anything else in the room while he was still in there. I would then put him in a prepared bath and quickly clean him up and then put him back in the room while I cleaned the dirty gate. This would take a half hour.

The psychologist told me to stop reacting to the horrible mess. Try walking into a room full of poop and not reacting!!! Well, I was able to do it. I called a friend and we started visiting. I went up to the room and found it smeared. I never mentioned it to the friend on the phone. I just kept talking and laughing. I completely ingnored my son while going through the aforementioned steps of cleaning up. It was the last time he smeared.

He wasn't:

1. Getting out of the room any sooner. He had time in room jail added.
2. Getting a play date.
3. Controlling me because I was enjoying my phone time too much.
4. Getting a reaction out of me.
5. Getting any attention.

If he is smearing the crib, I would try putting his mattress on the floor and see if he will cooperate and stop smearing. If he runs off at bedtime or naptime, the mattress goes back in the crib and remember you could care less if he smears.

The other thing would be to start potty training, but that means free access to a toilet.

Hope this helps.

mb

[Jessie]

Oh Laura, that is gross! LOL

I probably missed that stage with Jason, we have only experienced him not cleaning himself well enough after going to the bathroom and then making a mess . . . ugh! He's over that now - he knows better!

This did remind me of a funny little story about a friend of mine's daughter. Her daughter Katie was probably two years old, still in diapers and a crib. Friend's husband went in to check on Katie after her nap time and there was Katie, sitting in her crib, diaper off, picking out the raisins in her diaper and EATING them! Ugh! I do believe that is the last time her husband ever gave Katie raisins!!!

Sorry to those that have weak stomachs and just had to read that I probably should have given a little warning! LMAO

I just about dry heave everytime I think of this story myself.


Jessie

[rickismom]

Although Ricki never did this, I agree totally with MB--- no question that you must IGNORE the child and no reaction to the mess!

[Chris]

My first thought was he is probably ready to start potty training. Ugh....I hope Sarah skips this faze! She is finally learning to undress herself but hasn't tried removing her diaper. When I go in to get her after a nap or in the morning, she has either taken off her top or unzipped her jammies.

Laura, your little man must know that his days as the baby are almost up and sense that change is coming very soon.

Chris

[MB]

I am going to start a new support group for people suffering from "Katie's syndrome" - the inablility to ever, ever again enjoy a chocolate covered raisin!!!!!!

Oh Jesse, you crack me up!

mb

[hannahph]

Ok, I will never eat rasins again! Hannah did this also, at naptime when I was pregnant( and had morning sickness 24/) I did the whole scolding thing, it kept happening and then I also just started not giving her any reaction. She knocked it off after a couple of months thank goodness, I think it was a phase for her. One thing that seems so basic but have you tried keeping onsies on your son? I know he can still get at it through the legs but at least not down the back. May slow him down a bit???

[newmom]

Wow! Just what you need huh? I would say, if there is anything I have learned with my little guy, if there is someone you can ask for sure, do so! Could you ask your acquaintance what they did? If they went through it they could have some great ideas? GOOD LUCK!!!

[PaigesMom]

Laura, pregnant or not, I think that was one of the grossest things I ever went thru with Paige. What did I do, probably something everyone will think is mean, but I took her sleepers that zipped up the front from the year prior and cut the entire legs off until mid thigh, and cut the complete arms off. So I could still put them on backwards with the zipper up - the legs were long enough she couldn't get her hands up, but she had no arms. We had the air on in the summer so she was not so hot, and in the fall, the windows were open at night w/cooler air so she was still not so hot. She DID eventually grow out of it.

I loved the duct tape story. I'll never forget just 2 years ago when I had to duct tape her shoes on her so she was not throwing them out school bus windows. My friend saw that and thought I had compeletely gone off my rocker - again, it's better, but not gone, now I just put her in high top basketball shoes with high laces and velcro around the top.

Meanie meanie mommy.

Good Luck!!

Debbie

[MB]

Debbie,

During the mid 1950's my father started an airconditioning company. He discovered this thing called "duct tape." It was used on airconditioning ducts made of sheetmetal. The tape kept the cool or warm air from escaping through the seams in the duct work.

He brought it home and started taping everything! He would duct tape cloth diapers, christmas presents, hems in his suit pants, sassy kids' mouths, suitcases with questionable locks and anything else that required some kind of a closure.

As soon as everyone discovered duct tape, he moved on to velcro. I loved my Dad dearly. He was a war hero, philanthropist, a poster boy for the Beatitudes and a loving father. So, for you to refer to yourself as a mean mom would be an insult to my Dad! Never!

As far as turning the pajamas around and duct taping shoes, my parents were doing that before anyone had even heard of the Beatles!

Mean mom? Not in my opinion!

Do you make popcorn for the whole neighborhood during the summer?

mb

[laurasnowbird]

Hmmm, maybe we need to try potty training again. Trust me, I know better than to react. I don't sayaWORD anymore when he does it. And it did occur to me that since he LOVES a bath that he was doing it to get in the bathtub to play, so the trip to the bathtub is the ultimate business bath. Wash up, get out, no playing, no conversation other than things like "lift your arms, sit your bottom down, etc."

I've never blamed it on his DS, he totally understands what he is doing. I am fortunate that my friend's daughter did it, because it reassured me that it had nothing to do with his DS. Her solution was to buy a video system, and watch her daughter until she fell asleep, and then hurry into her room to get her AS SOON as she got up. I have a problem with that solution for a couple of reasons. First, it transfers all responsibility for the undesirable behavior to ME, and second, with a new baby only a few weeks away, I don't see myself having time to watch a television monitor of Ethan sleeping, LOL! Besides, her daughter did it for over SIX MONTHS, and I couldn't stand for it to go on that long.

The really bad news is that this is not JUST about bedtime and naptime. He sticks his hands in his diaper all the time, not just when he's stinky. It is a new behavior that began only a few weeks ago, and I believe it is a sensory issue. He has to be doing something with his hands all the time, and if he isn't doing something with them, he has to have them tucked into something. Has anybody else experienced this?

After some thought though, I am realizing that even though I am not reacting NEGATIVELY to his behavior, as in being upset or crying or yelling at him, I am also not behaving normally. It isn't my normal demeanor to walk into his room and take him out of bed without talking to him, nor is it normal for me to stick him in the tub and issue terse commands.

MB, I have to agree that leaving a three year old in a room smeared with poo would probably garner a visit from an agency that I would prefer to avoid, LOL! The flaw in the psychologist's logic is his/her assumption that it would trouble the child to be left sitting in his poo. Let's be honest, if it bugged him, he wouldn't have done it to begin with!

Debbie, I never even thought of cutting the arms and legs off his sleepers, I was just praying for a frost, LOL! I don't find anything mean about that solution at all. In fact, it is brilliant! Someone gave me a hard time about the duct tape thing, and I felt a little guilty until one of my girlfriends put it in perspective for me. She said, "Look, if they marketed the exact same tape, but didn't call it duct tape, called it 'keep the diaper on tape' you wouldn't think a thing of it, now would you?" That put it nicely in perspective for me, at a time when I was definitely losing perspective.

Chris, I think you are right, and maybe he is sensing his baby days are numbered. We have been pushing him to do LOTS of things on his own in anticipation of the new arrival. That may be a factor.

Jessie, Have pity on me girl! You had to share that story on a night when I was going to a movie, and guess what my favorite movie snack is? Or should I say WAS!!!!

I'll try acting like nothing has happened, and see if that makes a difference. I'd love any thoughts you guys might have on the sensory issues though, because I'm afraid that is a component of this behavior.

[Jessie]

Didn't Jodi post a while back that she was having an issue with Ryan doing this? Hopefully she will post up if she found a solution.

As far as the sensory thing . . . are you thinking it's his hands that need to be in something . . . or it's what he's finding that he likes to feel? KWIM?

Jason has his hands in his pants alot when he's sitting in his room watching TV, etc., it's a puberty thing . . . so there's something else to look forward to Laura!

Oh and sorry about the raisin story - tee hee hee

I've just been so supportive on this thread, haven't I? LOL


Jessie

[laurasnowbird]

C'mon Jessie, you know the old saying, "if you don't have anything nice to say....."


ROTFL!!!!!

I think it may be partly that he has "discovered" himself, but we have seen a ton of self-stim types of behavior lately, and aren't sure what to make of it. Chewing on books, dangling objects, sucking on his tongue when he's tired, etc. Many, many self-regulating behaviors. We saw Lori Overland (Sara Rosenfeld-Johson's associate) on Tuesday of this week (that is a whole other thread, LOL!) regarding an update to his oral-motor therapy, and she also noticed that he was indulging in a lot of those behaviors, and was going to discuss Ethan with the OT that she uses. She mentioned that she has seen lots of success with the listening therapy, and I told her we have the headphones and a number of the CD's so I am VERY willing to begin that again. She also thought the Wilbarger Brushing Protocol would benefit him, but thought now would be a bad time to start it since you have to do it every two hours, and the baby will make that impossible for a few months. She has seen a number of kids achieve great success with potty training using the listening therapy, so I am anxiously awaiting some direction regarding that as well.

P.S. Don't even TALK to me about puberty. I have to get through this three year old thing first, LOL!

[MB]

How about making it "not worth it" to put his hands in his poop? How about washing his hands for a ridiculous amount of time? Like for 10 minutes. He is not allowed to splash or have any fun. You are helping him hand over hand the entire time. He is going to get very irritated at being forced to stand at a sink for 10 full minutes. Here's what I would try.

1. Get a timer.
2. Have a conversation with your husband in front of him. Say that the pediatrician said that anytime someone puts their hands in a poopy diaper, they must wash them for ten minutes.
3. Have everyone do the same thing. Wash his hands for 10 minutes.
4. Do not talk to him or show any emotion. This is just the normal thing everyone does who sticks their hands in their poop.
5. Even if you have to give him an all business bath, still have him wash his hands at the sink for 10 minutes.
6. Part of what I hope he will want to avoid is an adult forcing him to do something for 10 full minutes.
5. Stick with it for three days.

Hope this helps.

mb

[CC]

YIKES LAURA have to agree with JESSIE that is pretty GROSS BUT JESSIE girl your story was even GROSSER hmmm is that a word LOLOL

SORRY girl I have no advise as neither of my kids ever did that. Not sure I remember right BUT I do think Robin had gone thru this with Chase, Hmmm I think I remember that right, you may want to contact her and see what worked for her, just a thought.

HUGS and hope you find the solution to this one PRONTO

CC ~