At my wits end........sleep issues!!!

[Chris]

I have always bragged about Sarah's wonderful sleeping habits but now it seems they are a thing of the past. For some reason, at least twice a week she wakes up between 2:30am and 4am. She is wide awake, jumping in her bed, yelling joyously and laughing. We still have her in a crib and I worry that she will jump right over the rail. She also bangs the crib against the wall, strips her bed and her clothes.

I put sheet straps on her mattress pad and sheet so she can't get them off. I put a diaper pin under the top of the zipper on her blanket sleeper so she can't get her clothes off now. At least I don't worry that she is naked lying on a plastic mattress and freezing but my problem still isn't solved.

Sarah is 4 1/2 and my goal for the summer is to put her in a regular bed and get her out of diapers. I think part of the problem is that she is still being allowed to be a baby and needs to grow up into a little girl. KWIM? I thought this sleep disturbance was a behavioral problem but now I'm not so sure.

When she awakens she is really wound up. Her muscles are tight like she is very excited. My husband teaches on M, T, W, and F nights. At first, it seemed like she was doing this on Friday mornings and I thought it was because Daddy was home when I put her to bed. When my dh gets up with her he feeds her, puts on a dvd, turns on the light, lets her play with all her toys, etc. I figured she knew she was going to get that special time with Daddy so she woke up.

I work T, TH, F so I am the one who has to get up with her on M and W mornings. I try to make it as boring as possible for her......no tv, no toys, no books, no light, maybe a drink of water. I was getting her out of bed and rocking her hoping that it would calm her and she would fall asleep. On Monday, I rocked her for two hours before she fell asleep. This morning I decided I would not get her out of her crib. I layed on the floor in her room and told her to lay down and go to sleep. She was up from 2:30 to 6 am!!! I admit, I finally gave in, gave her some yogurt and rocked her at 5:30. She was up at 8.

My question is have we just spoiled her or could something else be up with her waking in the middle of the night? This morning I decided that she has insomnia. I really don't think she could sleep. I often have insomnia, too. I go to sleep just fine but wake up in the middle of the night and can't go back to sleep for several hours BUT I'm not jumping up and down having a party!

I really would appreciate your opinions. I promise not to get my feelings hurt if you say she is just a brat.

Chris

[momofrussell]

Welllllllll I can't answer for why Sarah wakes up LOL... But when Russell turned 4 his sleep habits took a dive.. and we've just resigned ourselves to this fact 4 yrs later It just is for us.
Russell goes through ebb and flows of restfull to restless sleep nights. He can go a few weeks with NO wake ups.. then be "on" again and wake up 1-4 times a night for say, 3 weeks straight?

We just had the T&A surgery and I see him sleeping quieter which is a BIG plus.. some nights are more calm.. but for Russell.. I think it's sensory related!!! For Russell, he needs to be weighted down, ect.... we even tried to do the "toddler bed" conversion a few months back.. don't know if you remember but it was DISASTEROUS! heehee... he woke up like 4-5 times a night for about a month straight.... fluidly rolling out of the tiny little spot ... so.. at 8 yrs old, he is still in a crib.. he just sleeps better.

As far has babying Sarah being the prob... I don't think anyone could answer that but you! I don't know Sarah. I could safely assume some parents think that is why Russell could still be in the crib.. but that is not the case for us. Russell can climb out, ect... but he is just not ready for big beds, potty training, ect.. but you have to meet him to understand So... I think you will know if Sarah is ready or not.

I guess sometimes we have to help them to the next level... and sometimes we have to follow their lead a bit... it's hard to then decipher which! LOL...

good luck!

A.

[wrblack]

Yeah, when we first brought Charlie home we set an alarm to wake up and feed him in the middle of the night. When he got a little bigger, we just let him sleep. Slept like a champ. Did that for years. But in recent years sometimes has trouble falling asleep and more infrequently staying asleep. And, like A.'s Russell, has been a much, much quieter sleeper since getting his adenoids and tonsils removed. Hope he's sleeping more restfully too.
Anyway, maybe you'd like to look into melatonin. Seems to be working pretty well for us. But would suggest you check with Sarah's doctor, and you might want to inquire about the time released version.
Here's snips of couple of posts recently elsewhere:
For the past few months we've given Charlie, will be 7 in July, melatonin on sort of an on demand basis. For years Charlie slept very well, maybe all too well as an infant. After he had his T&A in April 2005, he's slept much more quietly and, I hope, more restfully. But even before the T&A, he had started having some difficulties falling asleep and more rarely staying asleep.
When I first asked his pediatrician about giving melatonin, in a quick phone consult he said he wouldn't recommend this in any kid with history of OSA. Later, face to face, discussing this further, and offered the choice of telling us it was okay to try melatonin or we'd expect him to come over and sit with Charlie the next time he awoke at 3 a.m. all ready to play, he said okay.
When it appears Charlie is having difficulty settling and getting off to sleep, by 10 or 10:30 or so, I cut a 3mg tablet of regular melatonin in half, crush it, and stir it into about a tablespoon of applesauce. Wish the tablets were scored. So far, quite effective, usually sleeping soundly within 20 minutes. But, in 4 or 5 months, we've done this maybe 6 or 7 times.
Just our experience. Your mileage may vary. If your child's problem is staying asleep, you might do better to try the time-released version.
Here's an unauthorized snip, maybe he won't mind too much, of something Dr. Leshin posted about melatonin to the Down-syn list in Jan. 2005:

A few comments about melatonin since my name is on this thread....

First, melatonin is not a regulated medication. It's been shown that the total mg of the tablet may not actually be what's on the label. Consumerlabs.com did a study on commonly sold melatonin and found that the following manufacturers were trustworthy: KAL, Twin Labs, Biochem, Duane Reade, Jarrow Formulas, MRM, Natrol, Nature's Bounty, Puritan's Pride, Schiff and Walgreens brand.

Melatonin is available in quick-release form ­ regular tablets and capsules ­ and special time-release forms extending its release over several hours (also referred to as extended-release, controlled-release, or time-release forms). Quick-release aids the ability to fall asleep, while time-release may be more helpful in staying asleep. Time-release versions cannot be crushed or chewed, but can be found as very small tablets.

There does seem to be some tendency to "get used to" the melatonin with less effectiveness over time. This varies from person to person, however.

Finally, melatonin's safety in young children has not been established.


Len Leshin, M.D., F.A.A.P.
Down Syndrome: Health Issues
www.ds-health.com

Also so good info and advice in this article,
www.autism.org/melatonin.html

My, my, my, snips within snips and links too.
Good luck,
Bob

[Chris]

Thanks for the replies. It's too bad that time released melatonin can't be crushed. I have no idea how I could get Sarah to take a tablet. I think it may be worth a try.

My question for all of you who have kids awake in the middle of the night is.......do you get up with them or just leave them in their beds or room? Since Sarah was awake for 3 1/2 hours last night I thought she would take a good nap today and give me a break. She did take a one hour nap BUT when I went to check on her she was naked and had thrown poop all over her room, smeared it on her bed, thrown in on the walls, area rug dresser, floor. UGH!!! This certainly is a difficult stage. It took me an hour to clean it all up. I still have to make up her bed. The good news is she has great potential as a pitcher.

Chris

[momofrussell]

Well, when Russell gets up.. it depends on what he does.. if I get up. The way our bedrooms are situated... our room, Russell and Reece's are all together.. so we gate it JUST beyond our rooms... so.. he can get up and either play, or come into our room to get back to sleep. Or in Reece's room but he doesn't do that LOL. IF he plays.. he will turn his light on and play... I do NOT get up for this. When he is ready to go back to sleep.. he turns off his light, and comes back into our room and climbs up on our bed and falls asleep. I then take him into his room. I know.. kinda cumbersome.. but since Russell needs to be weighted down and has for years... we have him start off on our bed.. before bedtime... and hence.. when he wakes up and needs to get back to sleep.. he comes on our bed. We are ok with this. But that is what we do. Russell CAN climb in his crib... but since we've been doing it this way since he was 4, he is conditioned to come into our room.

Sometimes I do find (hear LOL) him in the hallway.... he is JUST sitting there. Russell doesn't talk or make sounds... so it takes me awhile to wake up and realise he is there LOL. Sometimes I just wait and see what he will do....but for some reason, maybe sleep walking or hafl asleep.. he will just stay in the hallway and I have to get him and put him back into bed.

I guess my rule of thumb for Russell is... unless he is crying in his crib... or he comes into our room.. I don't get up!

Also... we too would love the time release melatonin but we have to crush it in applesauce when we use it. So.. that would not do for us. We almost had to use it last night actually because he was fidgeting again. We have had him doing this the past few nights.. even in the middle of the night... but we passed on it.. and he slept good until 3:30.. then he got up and came into our room.. and then I put him back into bed.. and that was that!

A.

A.

[justinsmom]

Chris I feel your pain. Justin wakes at all different times of the night and he does take a 3mg Melatonin tablet, works great getting him to sleep but it's not intended to keep him asleep. It's like he is fine with 2-3 hours of sleep a day ugggggg. He is also a former "artist" we ended up putting linoleum in his room and the plain white shower board, kinda cool though you can use the dry erase markers on them , we didn't have a choice I had scrubbed the walls so much I took them down to the drywall. If the walls and linoleum didn't work hubby was ready to install a drain in the middle of the room so we could just go in with disinfectant and hose everything down, fortunately he outgrew it. I have also been checking into some sleep aids at one of the health food stores, they have some specifically for the kiddos but kinda up in the air, his behavioralist says she didn't care for them but I would rather use something natural vs. a major drug KWIM any how still balancing that act. Now if we can only manage to figure out a way to bottle whatever it is they got we would certainly have enough to get our much needed UNOLAND going

[Emilysmom]

Chris,
I have no idea why Sarah is not sleeping, but we are SOLD on Melatonin here. IF your doc agreed that it would be safe for her at 4 yrs old, you could try putting a whole Melatonin tablet into a bite of yogurt or pudding (for some reason, ice cream never seems to work!). Emily takes it that way and it just slides right down along with the pudding. Some brands of Melatonin are smaller tablets than other brands.
I wish I had more to offer...........it's rough being a sleep deprived mom!
Susan

[Valerie]

Oh, I understand your pain! Nicholas was always a great sleeper, too, up until this past November. Then he started waking up around 1am and having a private little party in his room until 4 or 5am! I have no idea why he started doing this!

At first, I was getting up and trying to rock him back to sleep, which DID NOT work! So then I started bringing him in with me, but he would just kick the heck out of me the rest of the night. So I finally just left him alone. He can't open his door knob, yet, so he's safe in his room. I still have a monitor in there, so I would hear him get up and hear everything he was doing. He'd play his CD's, play with toys. Finally after 3 or 4 hrs, he'd go back to sleep. It was crazy!

Then, just as suddenly, at the beginning of March, he started sleeping through the night again! I almost hesitate to write that, because I might jinx it!

[Chris]

Sarah slept all night last night........yippee!!! She ususally goes to bed at 8 but last night she was so wound up and didn't go to bed until 10. At least we all got to sleep all night.

How soon before bedtime do you give your kids melatonin? I am most likely going to change pediatricians and will schedule an appointment with the new one asap.

Jackie~I am sooo happy to hear that Justin outgrew his poopy parties!

Chris

[momofrussell]

Well.. we tend to wind things down around 830 for Russell. If we put him to bed before that he would definately be up. So.. we will give him the melatonin around then too. It takes about 30 min to kick in.. we do the crushed pills. Don't know how long the time release ones take... wish I could use those! We don't use it every night. We did for a while.. but now we use it when he is more wound up and won't go to bed. Even mommy uses it sometimes.. it's a wonderful thing LOL

A.

[CC]

We use to have lots of trouble with Chris staying in bed or even in his room for that matter when it was time to go to bed The rule here has always been NO TV's in any of the bedrooms. Then one day I was thinking Hmmm I know my Sis had to always sleep with a the TV on and some of my friends tell me they cannot fall asleep unless the TV was on, Hmmmm For me I actually love the dark and quite to sleep. Anyway I said to Colin lets just try and we put a little TV in Christopher's room and didn't hook it up to cable, he can only play his video's on it. OMG for us worked like a charm ;D He just goes to his room with one of his favorite videos of the day and puts it in gets in bed and just goes off to sleep sometime during the movie

Lately Chris has been on a new med that one of the side affects can be trouble sleeping and I will say I have noticed him waking up but what has been cool for us is even thou he wakes up he will just put his video back on, get back in bed and not leave his room and again sometime during the movie usually crash out

Best of Luck

CC ~

[Many]

Chris...

I hope that Sarah will sleep more through the nite!! Maybe putting her to sleep late like at 10pm will make her sleep through the nite.

[joycemsoto]

Arianna who is 7 now gets up usually once a night. She falls asleep on the couch and then in the middle of the night she gets up and comes in our room. She kicks too much to sleep with us, so I usually take her back to her room. She will only sleep if she has the lights on. She turns on her closet light the bedroom light and the hall light. I usually turn them all off but her closet light. She usually goes back to sleep but some mornings she is up at 5 AM ready to go. I would just like to sleep to 6 at least.

Joyce

[Claire]

We usually give Adam is bath around 8pm, then a snack and watch tV with him or read a book for about 1/2 and hour. No playing with him, just calming him down before bedtime. Then at 8:30 every night it's bedtime and he will sometimes talk to himself for a while but never gets up. He is early in the morning though 6am ususally. But he seems content with playing in his room until 8am. I find that the same routine for all children is needed. All my 4 kids were raised the same way when it came to bed time. Some nights it's like he has an internal clock. We will have company but if it's anywhere close to 8pm he will demand his bath. It's like he's been conditioned into this. As for spoiling children I don't beleive children can be spoiled by too much love. Although they can sure learn prety fast how to manipulate us. ;D
Can't offer much advice jsut wanted to let you know to hang in thee. It must be hard being sleep deprived. I know that when I do I am not the same the next day. Must be hard on everyone. Just sending you hugs .

[myangelsaliandsadi]

Ali who turned three in February has always been a great sleeper.... I mean like 12 hours straight! Going to bed around 10pm and sleeping until 10am. Not anymore! Now its midnight to 6am.... still 6 hours so I can't complain too much.

Problem is her sister is doing it to, so I probably can't blame it on the Down syndrome since her sister doesn't have it. LOL.

When they wake up I usually let them go back to sleep on their own.... unless they are obviously wide awake like today...then I get up at 6am with them. The good thing, they are WAY happy for about an hour after waking up...then they get really cranky. Gee, lack of sleep maybe!

Good luck...and I'd love to hear any ideas that work, we are already planning to try Melatonin, we had it just waiting until we needed it.