today's CPSE/CSE meeting (HELP!!)

[meghans_mom]

i guess i'm probably posting this in the wrong place - so forgive me...and it's long so double forgiveness requested.

we have MM's summer cpse as well as her cse meeting today -- i am pretty PO'd.

background:
Meghan is to be placed in a typical kindy - half day with most of her therapies AFTER school (in school).

The head of the CSE Special ed guy (what's his title) was ABSENT for most of the meeting. the meeting was run by the school psychologist (i think that's what she is) and I feel like we got BULLDOZED in this meeting. This woman is a no-nonsense cold fish - i only met her briefly once when they went to observe MM at her preschool. Don't like her.

Meghan's preschool teacher did NOT attend but called in, and man I needed her there! the phone system SUCKED so they got her off the phone in a hurry because we couldn't hear her.

My first question - Is it LEGAL that the special ed director guy was not present for the first half of this meeting?

I am not happy with much of what they are offering me -- here we go:

So we agreed (or disagreed) on:
3 hours/week resource room with the Special Ed teacher. Either for 'preteaching' of upcoming concepts or reinforcement of that weeks concepts. This is fine.

2 OTs - NONE of them one on one. 2 sessions, both group. I think she may need an additional OT as a push in for art or the writing time.

1 PT -- push in OR pull out depending.

Speech - I am NOT happy...
2 group and 1 individual. I think all after school but am not 100% on this.
I asked to keep Meghan's current SLT who does excellent oral motor work on kids w/ DS - probably the #1 in this on Long Island - or close to it.
They refused because at the kindy level schools "don't contract out unless they can't offer these services...we have a fine SLT who does very good oral motor work".
Yes, but she hasn't really WORKED WITH KIDS WITH DOWN SYNDROME and doesn't know the specific needs of this population and how to help in the correct way.
they did offer to have our SLT meet with their SLT so she could observe what she does with MM. This is a nice gesture, but still not adequate.

She WILL have a bus matron. (a good thing)

SHE WILL NOT BE ALLOWED AN AIDE. Not a good thing.
They said I couldn't offer enough of a reason as to why MM needs an aide -- and I don't know what to say to rectify this.

It took all I could not to start crying, so I couldn't really speak after a certain point...

what do i do at this point. they know i'm not happy with what is on the table at present...and i didnt sign anything and WILL NOT until things get worked out.
What is my next step?

thanks for listening...and am i freaking out for nothing? i don't know what to think or do. i feel like i was thrown to the lions without the special ed director or MM's teacher being there. hubby was there - but, well you know....
laurie

[meghans_mom]

oh and i am going to check out the iep/education section too...but please! help!

[Valerie]

Sorry, I'm not much help in all things legal, just wanted to tell you how sorry I am that it went so badly! I'm sure A will jump in with some wonderful suggestions! Hope you get it all worked out!

[Connie]

Laurie,

Sounds like your IEP went as bad as mine did today!!!! I posted in the IEP section

Hugs girls
I can really relate

Connie

[mommygwen]

You were smart not to sign. If you want the special ed guy and the preschool teacher; tell them you want them to be there. Go to the next meeting and tell the others that you are expecting them and don't mind waiting.

[Emilysmom]

Laurie~
I'm not sure if this will make you feel any better or not, but our very WORST experience with IEP meetings out of all our years was the KINDY one! It stands out in my mind after all these years, and I SO remember what you said about feeling like I couldn't say a word, for fear I would start to cry. I had taken our private ST to the meeting with me to help me explain why we wanted HER to be Em's ST, and at one point she spoke up when it was obvious that I couldn't open my mouth......and the special ed supervisor actually said "so, are you here spokesperson now"?? Eeeeeekkkkk. I'm sorry it didn't go well for you, but glad you didn't sign anything. It does sound like there are things you can work on with this IEP. I would push HARD for an aide, and you could use MM's SAFETY as your primary reason. (A wise Uno Maser just mentioned this to me tonight!) We also said in Kindy that we did not want to set Emily up to fail, and that as soon as it looked like the aide was NOT needed, we'd be happy for her to pull out. We also encouraged them to consider that aide as a classroom aide, so it would not look to the other students like Emily and her aide were joined at the hip. That really helped the school to see the value of the aide.........sort of like they were getting more for their money if she worked with other kids too?

How did it end? Since you did not sign it, was there any talk of reconvening to discuss the issues again? Maybe everyone will fill the Special Ed Director in on everything and they'll discuss how they can get closer to what you have in mind??? I hope so, anyway!!! I think I would try to figure out which things are MOST important to you and then sort of "build a case" for why they need to provide them.
HUGS to you.........
Susan

[CC]

"what do i do at this point. they know i'm not happy with what is on the table at present"

If it were me I would in writing request another meeting And list all that you want to be present at this meeting. Actually I do believe it is legal for some not to be present at the IEP or the whole length of the IEP if you did not request they be there, KWIM. Were you given a letter prior to the IEP stating the time and date and who all would be present??

As for the aide, I have always found that using the word "SAFETY" was pretty much a given on a reason to get an aide, least in our district.

Also, PLEASE remember if you are not in agreement with any of or part of the services they are offering you can simple put in writing that you don't agree and would like an independent evaluation done, which by the way will be done at your districts expense. I have actually done this more then once and the end result was Chris got what he needed after the independent evals

Sorry to hear it didn't go well, HUGS to you girl.

CC ~

[momofrussell]

AWWW HUGS!!!

What I learned recently is to always follow up an IEP or any meeting with a "letter of understanding" which is basically you writing a letter saying "ok, it is my understanding MM will get or will NOT get this". It's good you did not sign. Your other next step would be to put ANYTHING you want in writing... and anything you disagree with in writing (2 sep letters, or I would at least).

ON the aide thing.... I would put in writing your request for aides... then they have to accept or deny your request in writing... and if you aren't happy, you go to mediation and/or due process. That is protocol. You always want to TRY to resolve matters in the lowest level resolution, but when that doesn't work, that is what mediation and/or due process is for.

If after your letter of understanding, you still aren't happy, above and beyond the aide thing (I know you mentioned ST, ect) you just request EVERTHING in writing.

As far as who has to be at the meeting....if your child will be included... the inclusion teacher HAS to be there... and the spec ed teacher... and you of course.. and someone to represent the child's best interests (would be a coordinator or whatever), I think is how they say it. I just learned this but need to look at my notes.. so don't quote me on this actually... it's 3am and I will look later Not EVERYONE we think has to be at an IEP... but certain key people do need to be there. Also... if that person was there for only half, I do believe that is legal.. crappy, but legal. Also.. make sure on your IEP if someone IS listed that wasn't there, that they didn't sign for that person. I know a mom who has the prinicipal listed on the IEP and he NEVER attends but miraculously his signature shows up on her parent copy!!!

Anywhoo... Connie.. I hope this helps you too! I didn't read yours yet... should I cut and paste? LOL

Hugs ladies... I know trans to kindy is hard.. especially for those that are striving for inclusion... it makes me proud you are here to fight for it... but sad it doesn't go as smoothly as the law makes it seem it should

A.

[laurasnowbird]

Laurie,


Ummmm, NOOOO, it is not up to the school to arbitrarily decide who will be there. However, one of the changes in IDEA 2004 allows individuals to be excused from the IEP, and I think your school may be RUNNING with that. However, you must consent to excuse team members and they must have your consent IN WRITING. Please excuse my vehemence, but this is one of the changes in IDEA 2004 that scared me. The statute describes who is on an IEP team, who can be excused, and under what circumstances. Note that it says that for an individual to be excused (by you) they still have to submit their findings -
"the member submits, in writing to the parent and the IEP Team, input into the development of the IEP prior to the meeting."

``(B) Individualized education program team.--The
term `individualized education program team' or `IEP
Team' means a group of individuals composed of--
``(i) the parents of a child with a
disability;
``(ii) not less than 1 regular education
teacher of such child (if the child is, or may be,
participating in the regular education
environment);
``(iii) not less than 1 special education
teacher, or where appropriate, not less than 1
special education provider of such child;
``(iv) a representative of the local
educational agency who--
``(I) is qualified to provide, or
supervise the provision of, specially
designed instruction to meet the unique
needs of children with disabilities;
``(II) is knowledgeable about the
general education curriculum; and

[[Page 118 STAT. 2710]]

``(III) is knowledgeable about the
availability of resources of the local
educational agency;
``(v) an individual who can interpret the
instructional implications of evaluation results,
who may be a member of the team described in
clauses (ii) through (vi);
``(vi) at the discretion of the parent or the
agency, other individuals who have knowledge or
special expertise regarding the child, including
related services personnel as appropriate; and
``(vii) whenever appropriate, the child with a
disability.
``(C) IEP team attendance.--
``(i) Attendance not necessary.--A member of
the IEP Team shall not be required to attend an
IEP meeting, in whole or in part, if the parent of
a child with a disability and the local
educational agency agree that the attendance of
such member is not necessary because the member's
area of the curriculum or related services is not
being modified or discussed in the meeting.
``(ii) Excusal.--A member of the IEP Team may
be excused from attending an IEP meeting, in whole
or in part, when the meeting involves a
modification to or discussion of the member's area
of the curriculum or related services, if--
``(I) the parent and the local
educational agency consent to the
excusal; and
``(II) the member submits, in
writing to the parent and the IEP Team,
input into the development of the IEP
prior to the meeting.
``(iii) Written agreement and consent
required.--A parent's agreement under clause (i)
and consent under clause (ii) shall be in writing.

And A. is right on about the denial of an aide. If they intend to deny your request, they must give you prior written notice of their intent to deny. They can't just verbally say no in the meeting. (Well, they did, but don't le them get away with that!)

Was the kindy teacher there? Because the regs says she/he should be.

Requirement with respect to regular education teacher.--A regular education teacher of the child, as a member of the IEP Team, shall, to the extent appropriate, participate in the development of the IEP of the child, including the determination of appropriate positive behavioral interventions and supports, and other strategies, and the determination of supplementary
aids and services, program modifications, and support for school personnel consistent with paragraph (1)(A)(i)(IV).

By the way, keep in mind that they don't HAVE to provide you with a copy of the IEP any more, so make sure to request one.

[momofrussell]

See... I do think they "slid" on the new IDEA laws in regards to the "who has to be there" stuff.. but I think they did cover their rears ever so slightly.. because the spec ed guy she mentioned was there but not for all of it... and the psych was there.. and the preschool teacher called in.... don't know about call ins.. but for sake of arguement... they had the appropriate people there... Fishy? You bet.... but I think they might have slid on this aspect. I think the signing something if someone isn't showing only applies if one of the 3 key players of theirs isn't there.. not say a therapist... KWIM?

speaking of this.. I thought it was funny because Russell's 1st grade teacher barely showed herself in this new placement IEP we had earlier in the year... which, I relaly don't care personally.. but she WAS there.. but never signed that she was LMAO!

A.

[laurasnowbird]

another thought (I'm cooking dinner, LOL!)

How about Least Restrictive Environment as an argument for an aide?

Least Restrictive Environment: To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities are to be educated with children who are not disabled. Special classes, separate schooling, or other ways of removing children with disabilities from the regular educational environment should only occur when the nature or severity of the disability is such that education in regular classes cannot be achieved satisfactorily with the use of supplementary aids and services.

Use the aide IN THE CLASSROOM "Either for 'preteaching' of upcoming concepts or reinforcement of that weeks concepts". Just a thought.......you know, pullouts BAD, inclusion GOOD, LOL!

[meghans_mom]

thank you all very much -- i had some of my Ps & Qs mixed up - the woman i don't like is the CPSE chairwoman - i think she may also be a psych, but that's besides the point. i did re-read the letter and the wording was something like "these are the people who *may* be present....etc etc" so they may be able to get away with that.
but this guy is the director of special education and pupil services.
I kind of think he NEEDS to be there.

as far as teachers being there - do they mean her CURRENT teacher or the teacher she will have in the fall?
her current teacher called in, and we don't know who the new teacher will be -- so there were no teachers there (from her new school in the fall)

i love some of the wording y'all used and am going to be taking copious notes so i have everything in order for the next meeting.

i am going to call and request one next week. MM's preschool teacher and current school psych PROMISED they will go this time.

It says in IDEA that the school can't have the treatments already planned out and from the way the CPSE chairperson spoke, (very quickly and boom boom boom) - I feel like it was either all cookie cutter, or they already decided in advance of us arriving what the deal would be.

it was a crazy meeting because it was her yearly CPSE for the summer, as well as her transition into CSE for next year.
NO IEP goals were discussed -- so I don't know if they have set goals or were using the ones her teacher sent in...but i don't know what they are and have had no hand in shaping them.
that'll change too.

i hope i don't sound too naive (although I am)...but I expected a bit more. This was the first year meeting with this new CPSE crew -- our third director at our district in as many years so I have NO relationship with them.

anyways - we'll see what happens next week -- and i can't thank you guys ENOUGH for ALL you advice and ideas. I have alot of homework ahead of me...

i'll keep ya updated. laurie