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Post by Jodi on Jun 4, 2007 17:02:43 GMT -5
Wow, I'm stunned. Ryan has had bad day after bad day. Teacher has asked that I keep him home tomorrow because they can't handle him on a field trip. I asked the principal if Ryan could be at school during the times the kids are in the class. I didn't feel that he should always go home if he is being bad. Then he said that it may be grounds for suspension. I guess I never thought it was THAT bad.
He ripped two more shirts today. I put him in his room and took everything out except books. I also told him that since he keeps ripping his shirts, he will have to wear them instead of the other ones.
WHY??? UGH!!!!
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Post by hannahph on Jun 4, 2007 17:39:14 GMT -5
I may have missed this in a previous post but has anyone at the school suggested a behaviour assesment and then putting a behaviour plan into place. I know it is almost the end of the school year but it seems like the school does not want to be bothered with it.I would be ticked off.
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Post by Jodi on Jun 4, 2007 18:03:30 GMT -5
We have a plan and have been following it. It's like Ryan has just lost it. He won't follow directions, taking off his shoes, socks, throwing things, ripping his shirt, all during typical activities. Activities he usually enjoys doing.
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Post by momofrussell on Jun 4, 2007 18:07:26 GMT -5
Hmmm well... First off.. sorry I didn't respond to your other post I have no excuse. Does Ryan have a behavioral plan in place already? Has he ever had a behav assessment? What about Positive Behavioral Intervention? Some things to think about for next year. I realize school is just about over.. and whether it's the end of the year only or daily, Ryan needs a plan in place to protect him and others. My next question would be... what would the school do to a child in gen ed that poked holes in his/her shirt? What would the consequence be? I am curious if the school would really suspend a child for that. Maybe they would. This is a tricky area with our kids. On one hand, it needs to be acknowledged that our kids have spec needs and some behavioral issues that need to be addressed accordingly and with plans.. but the flip side is that if they DO know better and know what they are doing is wrong, do they then get the same consequence as a gen ed child? That is why it is important for the behavioral plan. And if part of that plan is, Ryan will be suspended if he knows better and is continuing to do so, then so be it. Making sure it's not medically related is a great idea also. Kids are quirky characters aren't they?! Year end act ups are also very possibly like already stated... I know Regan use to go through some "phase" right around her bday in March.. and would be in this phase until the end of the school year. Doesn't make it right but makes you understand why. Also.... I'd ask what happened prior to the incident... and after. What was different in the day. Part of behavior assessments are knowing if something changed that day or not. Or, if our children are just being "a child" with a moment LOL That would help to know WHAT to do with the incident. As far as what to do with Ryan and these specific incidents.. I don't know though I need more data LOL But I don't think keeping him home while the kids are at the field trip is the answer... I agree he may not need to do the field trip... but there should have been a way to keep him at school and learn what he has done. I'd look at your district policy on suspensions on their website tonight if I were you.. make sure the principal isn't trying to snow you Good luck!!!! A.
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Post by Jodi on Jun 4, 2007 18:12:58 GMT -5
Thanks A. There is a plan. This is what happens...
Ryan is sitting at his desk with papers to work on - typical papers. He takes his pencil, puts it under his shirt and pokes it through. The teacher tells him if he rips his shirt he has to go to yellow (from green). He proceeds to rip his shirt. She tells him to go to yellow. He sometimes will, other times wont move his name. If he doesn't move his name, they move his name to red. He knows the routine. Sitting there at his desk, he will start to pick at the hole until it is huge. He will be moved to "time-out". There, he will take off his shoes, socks, glasses, all attention seeking behavior. If he goes home on red, he loses tv and games for the day. 2 reds in a row, he has to stay in his room with nothing but books for the rest of the day. That has only happened twice. This is the 5th red in a row!!
The suspension is for throwing a chair, and not following directions, using scissors to cut his shirt and other inappropriate behaviors.
This kid is driving everyone crazy right now... including dad who has now officially joined unomas to get his own advice (YAY)!!!
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Post by momofrussell on Jun 4, 2007 18:20:09 GMT -5
Well, I learned with Regan that she was the type of child that she didn't and shouldn't get a warning. Some kids do well with warnings, some just see it as another chance to do the behavior again and again. From reading your post here, that's all I saw. Ryan gets ALOT of "times" to do the bad behaviors again and again. Time for a different plan. I don't know what that plan should be but I would omit those chances. Regan was always a good kid but chances were a "safety" for her.. she is STILL like this.. so for someone like Regan, I don't do "one more chance" with her.. it's more of a "if you do this AT ALL, THIS will happen".... and I ALWAYS have to forwarn her before the behavior was done the first time. I think that is what needs to change here. We still have to do this with Regan. I think we will with Russell too LOL Read my spitting post LMAO Oh.. and suspension for throwing a chair? Makes sense to me.. I don't know if I could argue with that... BUT.... I'd like to know what happened to make him throw the chair and make sure whatever lead up to that NEVER happened again! They can't just suspend Ryan without acknowledging what was causing him to throw a chair.. or it WILL happen again. I would also expect this for my typical child A.
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Post by chasesmom on Jun 4, 2007 21:06:15 GMT -5
Jodi....I am going to be on the side of ryan for the moment okay? I only say that because I dont know all the facts but the first red flag came up when I read what happens. it almost sounds like they are waiting for Ryan to be naughty. I dont see any positive reinforcers here, only negative attention getters. Remember I am playin devils advocate for the moment ok so dont get mad at me ok? Here goes....Ryan pokes a hole in his shirt...why? You need to find that out right away. Then he goes to time out for it and takes off his glasses, socks and shoes. Why does the teacher make a big deal out of it? If she knows those are attention seeking behaviors they should be ignored. (remember I am playing devils advocate ok?) So what if he takes off his shoes and socks, it is hurting no one and it is obviously his way of saying he is angry or frustrated or unhappy so lets find a different way for him to express those emotions. And before any of this even starts....lets back up, lets give Ryan the green card as soon as he walks in the room and then give him some choices right away that they KNOW he wil be successful at so he can keep that green card a while. And maybe...just maybe the work is geting hard for ryan and he needs help, where is his parapro? Why isnt she there helping Ryan to do his work with words of encouragement? If he doesnt have one, it is obvious he needs one desperately right now to help him be successful. Being so unsucessful in school would make me act out day after day too and then knowing I was going to come home and lose all my priviledges there, why would I even bother, his frustration level has to be sky high. He needs some positive reinforcers right now, take that red card away from the teacher and hide it for a while, give him choices that lead to good things only for a few days. And in te state of Michigan it would be totally illegal for a principle to call a parent and say he couldnt come to school and go on the field trip because there is no one to watch him or be with him. That is the school's job to provide him with someone, what are they trying to pull? It's not Ryan's job but yet he is being punished for something out of his control and he hasnt even done anything wrong, now that is just plain wrong! He threw a chair..how come? Chase has thrown lots of chairs (I am so glad to say it hasnt happened since we got the new behavior consultant and moved him into his new placement where he is happy) Ryan isnt going to throw a chair for no reason but the teacher and principle arent looking at the big picture..what is causing all this, it doesnt happen for no reason, it just doesnt! Chase has been the worst behavior problem at school for a child with DS I have ever seen and I teach at a special ed post secondary program for students ages 17 to 26 (here in michigan you can go to school til then) but once we found this wonderful behavior consultant and the great program we built (the special ed director and I) for Chase, he has become so so so so much better that it is astounding! If I hadnt seen with my own eyes I would swear they were lying to me or this wasnt my child so I just know Ryan doesnt want to be like this but there is a problem at school that needs to be fxed and trust me when I say the school and the teacher and the principle will NEVER admit it could be them, it is so much easier to say it is that awful Ryan and his behaviors. They need to set him up to win, not fail. Oh I wish I could hug you all! Hang in there, let me know how it goes ok? Robin
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Post by Chris too on Jun 4, 2007 21:25:55 GMT -5
Just what I've been thinking , Robin. These behaviors don't happen in a vacuum. What else is going on in that classroom? Can you spy somehow, Jodi? Is the teacher (and aid) also burnt out at end of school year, and just doesn't want to deal with Ryan's special needs? Where do you find these marvelous behavior consultants, Robin? I could use one of those Chris
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Post by CC on Jun 4, 2007 21:34:40 GMT -5
Awww Hope your OK with all my ?'s but just throwing them out there and maybe one of them may lead to an answer. Have you had Ryan to the Ped to rule out anything medical? I don't think you ever said Ryan was on any kind of med but if he is, might be time to change it KWIM This is just my thinking K, BUT I am a believer No child person wants to act out on purpose, something is going on with him and I can so relate to the trouble it can be sometimes figuring what that is with our kids. Been there I can relate HUGS to you. He has a one on one in class, right? Sounds like she is not the right one on one for him. Just my thoughts. Here in our district if one does not go on the field trip for what ever reason they then have to be in school and go to class. Is Ryan mainstreamed?? If he is he could go to the regular classes during the field trip, if you want him to. I am not at all making excuses for your son BUT it really sounds to me like there is more to this then just seeking out attention. Can he communicate anything to you bout his feelings?? Is he sleeping during the night?? For Chris who is 14 acting out was never for attention there always was a reason but man oh man finding that reason was no easy task sometimes. If you have a behavior plan in place maybe just maybe its time to reevaluate it KWIM and changes need to be made. There are just all thoughts, brainstorming KWIM. Not knowing your son I have no idea but I wanted you to know I can relate CC ~
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Post by MB on Jun 4, 2007 22:05:42 GMT -5
I haven't read everyone's responses. But, writing with a pencil for some kids with Down syndrome is like nails on a chalkboard. It was that way with my son. Susan Peoples has a book. (I can't recall the title maybe Educating Children with Down syndrome. Go to Woodbine and search by author.) She says that kids with Ds should be given a full array of writing instruments (pen, gel pen, markers, crayons etc..).
After listening to her lecture, I realized my son has never once used a pencil on his own. He has always used pens, crayons or markers.
Wouldn't it be great if this was the fix? You have nothing to lose by trying.
I just read some of the other posts and found out that Ryan is eight. I assume he is in third grade. This was when my son realized that he was "stupid." He was absolutely miserable. He was angry, had low self esteem and was embarrassed of his work. I know of at least two other boys with Ds who went through this starting at age eight.
I sat my son down and told him he was not stupid. I explained that the Down syndrome was causing all of the problems. I told him he had to work harder than any of the other kids to accomplish anything and I admired him forhis hard work. I then went through all the reasons that we loved him and that we were so lucky to have him in our lives.
Then, it was on to the teacher. We both had the same mantra. I know the work is different. I know it is hard. You know its because of the darn Down syndrome. Go ahead and finish your work and be proud of it.
I would stop using any consequences like sending him to his room or taking things away. If he is as miserable as my son was at that age, no punishment in the world is going to make him feel worse than he already does.
You might want to get him out of the regular classroom for the rest of the year during core subjects like math and reading. Instead I would find suitable fun activities to do in the resource room where he and his para/teacher can enjoy the end of school.
Here are some examples:
Taping sight words around the school and go on a hunt. Count items for the cafeteria lady and fill out a form (with a pen). Play games like Sorry for counting. Read a chapter book and watch the movie made from the book. Do a power point for Father's Day and save it to a disk for a gift. Fill a glass cup 1/2 full of ice cream adding 1/2, 1/4 and full teaspoons of stuff for measuring. Make a boboli pizza and cut for fractions. Locate cities on the map of America which have goofy names like Surprise, AZ for geography. Combine paint colors for science. Combine baking soda and whatever for science. Make a book of flower and leaf species for science. Make a template for a speech and have Ryan fill in the blanks and then give the speech to some of the staff. Read books to the kindergarteners. Line up the kindergarteners for recess. Use the paint feature on the computer and then print and frame. Peel carrots for dexterity. Study something or someone that you know he likes (wrestling for my son). Make a calendar for the summer months and fill in classes, vacation etc to be hung in his room at home. Test him on locating rooms like the gym and art room. Give him a real score on the test and a grade. Go over safety issues for the summer such as pool safety, what to do if he is lost, wearing sunscreen etc... Let him practice packing a pool bag which could be his job for the summer. Make a yarn picture by dipping colorful yarn in thinned glue mixture and creating a design on card stock.
Anyone else might want to chime in.
Good luck.
mb
mb
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Post by Jodi on Jun 4, 2007 22:27:53 GMT -5
Thanks gals...
I think it is a comibination of a lot of things. I do think that Ryan is burned out, I also think the teacher is burned out and the two aids in the classroom are done too. The last two years have been all about behavior. Everything revolved around behavior.
Last week, I was told by the aid that Ryan kept dropping his pencil on the ground. He'd drop it, and she'd say "stop playing and get back to work". Drops again... warning is issued drops again... now he has to change colors. He looked her straight in the eye and dropped the pencil. This is so Ryan. What is interesting is his teacher said he THREW the pencil at the aid. Little bit different than what the aid said. I think sometimes the teacher paints a darker picture because she thinks I will react stronger (which I probably do sometimes).
Ryan really does test a lot, and he really does get bugged when he is not the center of attention. I think everyone is hypersensitive right now. I have emailed the entire team (teacher, principal, beh. spc., school psych) and have said that we are doing all we can at home to support the teacher/aids by having Ryan stay in his room. There's a part of me that feels that Ryan is a target right now. He is NO angel (as his dad said LOL) but I don't know, there's something weired going on.
The teacher said he threw a pencil, but the aid said he dropped it. What about the chair? Did he push the chair or did he really throw it? I don't know. The principal agreed that he does need to be in school during the time the kids are in class. The teacher has said in the past that if Ryan is out of control, there is no other appropriate class to put him in. That there is no one there that can "handle" him.
We have a regional center beh spc. that comes once a week. We are in the middle of getting reauthorization... but you know, we have all these people ... teachers, aids, beh specialists (school and home) and it seems like things are worse.
When Ryan is acting inappropriately at school, the teacher and aids usually ignore him unless he can harm himself or someone else, that's when then intervene. I have been there, and I have seen his behavior, and I have to say he does a lot of what they said, just sit there being defiant, not following directions regardless of the consequences. As I said before, he missed lunch the other day because he wouldn't get his shoes and socks back on and put on his ripped shirt so he could go. I watched him just sit there on the floor...
Okay I'm rambling. I need to "noodle" this some more... thanks for your thoughts... keep them coming... Larry is going to get him to the drs to rule out possible infections.
Jodi
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Post by CC on Jun 4, 2007 23:03:13 GMT -5
Jodi just another thought for you Have you had Ryan's hearing checked lately?? I might have missed sorry but what type of class is Ryan in ?? Is it possible there is just to much stim going on for him and he is not getting what they really want from him?? I feel for you girl, I know how frustrating and stressful this can be but it will all come together it really will. Hang in there and HUGS again to you and Ryan as I am sure he doesn't want it to be this way either. CC ~
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Post by ALLISA on Jun 5, 2007 5:38:50 GMT -5
Just reading quickly through, I think it is totally unfair that he is not allowed on the field trip. It isn;t like that was presented as his "punishment" but more like...." we can't deal with him, sorry". Well, sounds like they are doing what THEY need to do. He's making their job a little harder ? He isn't falling into their nice neat no bending all rigid behavior plan.....so HE is the problem ? I agree withe Robin and MB.....they need to tailor it to him. I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that shirt ripping and ONE chair instance are ground for suspension. You are correct.....his whole team sounds burned out......well.....we ALL get burned out, but that isn't a reason to just ban a child. I'm sorry that I haven't anything concrete to offer.....but I think Ryan is getting shorted and "set up" and I don' think it is fair.
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Post by cmedrano99 on Jun 5, 2007 7:17:25 GMT -5
Ok.. my 2 cents.. red flags going off get his ears checked and rule out medical.
Also.. sounds like he BORED!!! Needs to be challenge more. You know sitting a dest and writing for a child with short attention span (most all kids with DS have) and tell them to pick up the pencil and write.. after 5mins MOST kids HAVE enough.. time to move on! Honestly I throw a chair too if means getting the teachers off there butt for some entertainment:) Make you feel better the last few weeks Dayton my 9yr DS/Autism/SID misses every other day... the teachers are trying to finish there end of school crap and class is normal out of whack and Dayton rather be home than there.. since I am SAHM.. I will just keep him home than sending him! Thanks goodness for IEPs and BIP and SUMMER!!!
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Post by Connie on Jun 5, 2007 7:54:02 GMT -5
Jodi, I'm sorry your going through this because I can really relate. My Collin is 7 but he is in Kindergarten (my choice). You said I maybe (and probably am) taking this wrong but I had this problem at the beginning of the year with Collin before he was on his medicine for ADHD (which helped a lot with the impulsiveness) There were times when Collin would run a muck because of the over stimulation. I was told the aid in the class had a bad back and bad knee and couldn't handle Collin physically or chase after him if needed...To the point they were wanting to change his placement and place him in a behavior problem class. I (in my nicest and most sincere face/voice) asked about the aids' (and others) disability and they proceeded to tell me that she sat a lot and they made accommodations for her because she did have problems getting around. (Can you see where I'm going with this ) I brought it up that Collin's disability was just like theirs and how would they feel if the admin stators just told them TUFF get over it or you can't work here...it wouldn't happen!!! They never used the excuse they didn't have anyone to handle him any more nor gave me grief on his accommodations. Good Luck, Connie
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