Cutting with Scissors and potty training

[cheyanne12]

Hello! Noah had his heart catheterization in Aug and is doing well, but we took the summer off from in house preschool and therapies. Anyway, over the summer I did not work on the scissors since I had other worries here. I made one mention of Noah attending preschool and they ran with it... to the point of wanting to write him up as not learning at home to get him into the IU program and he doesn't use scissors. He is three years old, going on four in January. I'm still trying to get him to use the potty. He will occassionally have a success, but I think I need to make up a very strict schedule and try putting him on more frequently.

Anyway, my husband is against preschool because he just had the heart catheterization and he will be on aspirin for 6 months so he's worried about Noah getting sick. So the new inhouse teacher told me "Husbands dont' always know what is best" which made me feel awkward especially since this was my first meeting with her. Then later that day the speech therapist called me to say she was called to come and evaluate my son and I have a feeling she too is looking to say he is not advancing at home.

Noah is also having problems with throwing... he can color for a little while and then he will throw the crayon. I feel it's almost as if he has an impulse problem since he does the same when it's time to eat and he can throw something he wants a little bit later.

Anyway, I wanted to see at what ages your children were successful with scissors and if you found that this is pushed by all occupational therapists at the age of three.

Any success stories on potty training or use of scissors would be nice to hear.

[jessjetland]

Sam is 5 and just started kindgarten and we are still working on the scissor concepts but he is mostly potty trained with only the occasionally accident. I think I need to get better trained after 4 years of diapers I forget to ask him if he needs to go so I set a timer at home just in case. I dont blame your husband for worrying about Noah getting sick, I would feel the same way. I work in a preschool so I see kids with runny noses all the time and they share everything but when Sam went to preschool I was sick more then he was.

But whatever you think is best is the right thing to do,
Good luck Jess

[cheyanne12]

My thought was to put him in preschool after the 6 mos of aspirin if he is doing okay. I guess since he is the baby and my teens are in school I was thinking socialization and friends for him. However, I too worked in a daycare and found out I was sick quite often, and then Noah ended up in the ER with croup. So we decided then my job wasn't worth the risk to Noah, and I had been on two antibiotics and wasn't getting better. Anyway, I am not happy with the idea of "this is how we get him moved into preschool by saying he is not advancing at home because he doesn't know how to use the scissors." He has preschool teachers, OT, PT, and speech coming into the home from the school district but we did take a break for the summer. The idea of saying he is not advancing in the home after ONE visit with the OT just doesn't sit right with me in my gut. I sit back thinking he had heart catheterization at three years old and the last thing we were worried about was if he was capable of using scissors when we were focused on his life, and his brother's life as well. I guess I do not agree that all children will learn the same thing at the same rate, and sometimes the goals just seem unrealistic to me. I don't think my biological children who do not have down syndrome even knew how to use the scissors till they went to school. I never thought anything of it. I didn't send them to preschool either because I believed that we have become a very fast faced society expecting so much from the kids and they aren't even allowed to be kids at times. A teacher draws a picture and thinks ALL children should draw the same picture when each child is an individual with minds of their own. I guess I need to ask myself if there is a better way.... I'm feeling stressed during a time Noah and I should be enjoying learning.

[laurasnowbird]

You know, the good news is that he's only four years old, and you don't have to do ANYTHING you don't want to do. If you want him at home, it really doesn't matter what your reason is, KEEP him at home! D*mn therapists, anyhow.

As far as scissors, Ethan is in a regular kindergarten this year, a Young Fives class, and he still doesn't use scissors well. We used to be in a program called Parents as Teachers, both for Victoria and Ethan, and I absolutely cracked up when they talked about kids using scissors at NINETEEN months. I said "What mother in her RIGHT MIND hands scissors to a NINETEEN MONTH OLD BABY!!"

Really, I thought they must have been smoking crack.

As for toilet training, Ethan is fully toilet trained. He was almost exactly five years old, and given how well he did, I probably could have done it sooner, but was chicken, LOL! We did it the cold turkey way, threw away all the diapers, didn't use pull-ups and put regular underwear on him. He trained in four days, day and night. He had only one night time accident in those first four days, and has only had one since, when he forgot to use the bathroom before bedtime one night.

If you want to try the cold turkey method, and you want more details, I'd be happy to share.

P.S. Most of the OT's we've seen who mentioned this ridiculous benchmark didn't have children, LOL!

[Chris too]

I think that they are making excuses to get their way. My typical sons, ages 3 & 5 are learning to use scissors. The 5-y-o does better, but I didn't start either of them on scissors until this year - are you kidding me? I'd have had a house full of cut up books!!! We did have one incident of the older one cutting the younger's curls off, but I did not witness it, so I can only guess whether he used them correctly - probably not. Keep in mind, too, that these boys are nearly 4 & 6.

Stevie is about 2 1/2 and she's pretty well on track with fine motor skills - started drawing circles this week, but the OT hasn't yet brought out the scissors. Still working on threading beads.

The throwing thing is frustration. Stevie will throw whenever she is not getting the level of success she wants. Blocks, puzzle pieces, beads, spoons, crayons (though they sometimes get nibbled instead), and especially nesting cups. Her OT tells me it is the fallback activity of all her kids with Ds, along with what she calls the "flicky floo" where she not only crashes a tower, but flickes it all over the place with flicking fingers

Considering the facts that Noah has had somewhat delicate health and that he has Ds, it sounds like he's right on target to me. Don't let them railroad you. Make them mind the IEP. And keep enjoying teaching Noah in home. JMO

Chris too

[Connie]

What does your heart doctors say about him and school? Do they say he can go or for his health it would be better for him not to be out socially?

After Collin had his open heart surgery he was out of school for about 1 week, then put on limit (physical) restriction but back in school.

Chris too, Who is your PT?

Connie

[Chris too]

Connie,
Jennifer at Bona Vista, but under the supervision of Kirk - wish I knew their last names. OT is Sabra Rennacher.

Chris

[CC]

Does your Doc say no school while he is on the aspirin treatment?? Just wondering hope you don't mind me asking??

Christopher learned to use the scissors very well while in preschool, the child safety scissors

Chris was a late potty trainer he was 6 before he was fully trained, just before his 7th B Day.

CC ~

[Pat]

John-John's 1st OT was Slower than John-John. No joke... bye-bye. The second wanted John-John to do puzzles his older sisters weren't able to do..bye-bye. So I waited until I put him in special needs preschool at 5 1/2 to start OT again & said NO teaching him scissors. When my girls learned it they cut some of the folded laundry. I say NO teaching him until he has a concept of what we cut. Did they listen? No, they taught him & he cut my Calif King sheets (I have to order as I live on the east coast). That was costly GRRR I again said NO & thanks a lot They stopped. He did not need to use scissors to prove he had fine motor skills. He didn't need the OT to improve in his skills he did okay without an OT. Not saying a good one can't help, just saying they're not mom.
As far as socialization. I homeschool & yes, there are other places besides school you can get socialization. I read this today
"Parental involvement in their children's lives is directly related to their well-being and character development - that's why schools are always trying so hard to get parents involved."
When John-John was in school he got sick plenty of times, so I'd keep Noah home for the 6 months.
Just because the therapists say it doesn't mean they know your child better than you.
Pat

[cheyanne12]

I appreciate all the feedback. No, we did not even ask the heart specialist about preschool... we just know our son did get croup when I worked in a daycare, and I was sick all the time which meant he got sick from me. I guess I was the one who opened the can of worms by just asking our OT about preschool, how often they go and all. My four teens never went to preschool, and one graduated with honors. Of course my teens do not have Down syndrome, but I felt then that kids are just pushed out of their childhoods and it becomes a race to see how much they can do. I've read about unschooling in the past and I did homeschool one of my children for what felt like a short time. He is now in high school and he has always struggled with school. Noah went potty three times for me yesterday... today was a different story! HUGE SUCCESS in one day, but now I just need to keep at it.

[CC]

"My four teens never went to preschool, and one graduated with honors"

Yes my oldest, Kodi Lee never ever went to preschool either and she too graduated with honors ;D I truly understand what you are saying as Chris has been in some kind of program since he was only 1 month old BUT for him I will share was needed and there were many benefits for him

I would never tell you to do it or not to do it, its all up to what you think is best for your child.

For me I can just say that Chris really needed the help and it payed off in lots of areas.

Go with your gut your the Mom

CC ~

[cheyanne12]

The latest is the mention of a psychologist for our three year old son who throws toys, cups, and doesn't like to have a plate of food on his tray. I noticed that he does stimming (which I am trying to learn about and maybe someone on here knows more) he was looking through a book and just verbally going ahhhh. He hates loud music like at an outdoor concert so I always take him to the very back of the concert. I feel he will throw when he wants to get out of something or lately he has even started putting things under the couch to get out of them. Anyway, my stepfather sat back and said What does he need to see a psychologist for... he's three years old and most boys misbehave at three. From what I'm hearing is that they don't know what to recommend to do about the throwing. We've taken toys away, we've even done time out recently. They keep hinting at preschool for our son ever since I just asked about it. My stepfather doesn't agree with Noah learning how to use the scissors either. However Noah has recently taken up interest in learning and doing it himself. Although he needs help. My husband is against a psychologist, and I just sit here wondering "what are they thinking EXACTLY?" Is there something they are looking for or trying to rule out? I was told that everyone would be on the same page as to what to do about the throwing since they believe his problem is all behavioral. (They represent OT, PT, and a preschool teacher that comes into our home). As Noah's mom, I'm not sure how I feel about a psychologist at this point. Guess I'm looking for some feedback from anyone on here. I had asked about autistic spectrum disorder or tendencies.... only because I have noticed in the past that he would play for awhile with wheels just spinning them, and then the stimming when he is reading (however the OT says that is functional play). I feel like I've got a LOT to learn. I've seen Noah pinch himself (and it's not like anyone here pinches him) and even hit himself. He will say "dont throw the sand" and then he throws it. I'm thinking I need to tell him what to do instead of what not to do since it seems to replay in his head. Does he see the sand and remember me saying "Don't throw it" which causes him to throw it? PUzzled mom here!

[Chris too]

Is the psycologist a behavior specialist from whom they want advise on making a behavior plan? It could be that that's all they're after, but I'd be hesitant too.

Has Noah's OT mentioned anything about his sensory integration or about poor proprioception? I would recommend looking at this article on sensory processing & proprioception:
www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/proprioceptive-dysfunction.html

It sure sounds like Noah would really benefit from having his OT to incorporate some proprioceptive/sensory integration therapies into her routine. These would include joint compressions, brushing, balancing, deep hugging, and others. You may want to ask about that.

BTW, I am impressed with his speech: "Don't throw the sand" is quite a sentance! It would be good, as it is with all children, to include lots of positive things TO DO, in addition to all the DON'Ts. "Put the sand in the bucket" "Bury a toy in the sand" "Put your cup right here." Oh, and with Stevie, when she's on a throwing jag, we have to hold both hands while we talk right into her face and use a firm, low voice to tell her "No throwing." But then, she's pretty compliant in spite of the stubbornness on the extra 21st chromosome

Chris too

[Kristin]

I'm adding my 2 cents here...toss out the age comparisons and you'll probably sleep better. I've learned to look at it as my daughter is making progress and she'll get there! The OT started working on scissors at about 18 months. They used hand over hand with a special pair of scissors made for it. Squizzors were also used and worked well for awhile. At first someone had to hold the paper taught for her, then she could cut fairly straight lines. Curves came next, but neat cutting took several years (age 6) to really get it down. It just took her fine motor skills that long to develop. At almost age 9, her handwriting is getting legible. Her teacher is still not worried about it being between the lines yet.

As for potty training, I potty trained for 6 years. Not to discourage anyone, but I would have told you she was ready at age two. My daughter stayed dry at night and would go on the toilet without fuss if she needed to use it. It has been a long haul, but I have to say...she hasn't had an accident at school yet and this is the first year I've been able to say that. I'm not sure for a long time she sensed when she needed to go. Like other milestones, she gets there in her own time. In the case of potty training...turtle slow. In the case of communicating...fast. I've decided that potty training is not connected to anyone's IQ, so don't get discouraged or blame yourself. Like all children, just keep with it and they'll eventually get it. I do think that some methods get you there faster, and sometimes it is finding the one that works for you adn your child. Good luck!