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Post by twosomy21 on Aug 17, 2008 16:34:05 GMT -5
i had a discussion(sp) about the movie with hubby and what is being said about it- he started to talk about freedom of speech and all that fallows. we disagreed and both points were made, i did feel guilty to post that here due to the feeling of being singled out because of gilberts opionion. i also had lunch with my brother a few days ago and again his opionion differed from mine, i can not hate these two guys for kinda hurting my feelings but if they ever do see the movie i think the they can make their own outcome and do what they will with the info.i am not interested in this movie ,but do like a comedy and did refrence some for my brother and he made it clear they all poke at something. i suppose it is the lack of creativity on the publics part to not choose a more APPROPRIATE word to get a point across i hope this all makes some sense thanks for reading
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Post by Kristin on Aug 17, 2008 16:58:50 GMT -5
By biggest objection is that they incorrectly define the word "retard" by equating it with being stupid, imbicile, idiotic, and moronic. It is the continuation of this stereotypical use of the word that really offends me.
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Post by Chris too on Aug 18, 2008 7:09:41 GMT -5
Movies that are written by successful comedians are often quoted by those who see them. Those who see Tropic Thunder will be heard throughout the nation saying things like "Don't go full retard." The big problem with movies like these is that the repetition of these sorts of sound bites tends to create an atmosphere of devaluation. The echo and re-echo of oppressive language creates an atmosphere in which it is acceptable to think less of an entire people group. The habitual devaluation of any people group is not healthy for society & squashes the benefit of diversity.
I do not want government intervention to prevent such things; what I want is for society (that's you and I) to stand up and say that it is not acceptable to devalue a people group by words or deeds. We are a part of the society that is polluted by this sort of language. We the people must say "no more" because the government has no buisness limiting freedom of expression. It is up to us to use our freedom of expression to tell society that this sort of language is not acceptable.
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Post by elizabethsmom on Aug 18, 2008 14:55:50 GMT -5
I totally agree with Chris too! I don't think the government should have anything to do with this. Even if they had "outlawed" the word, people would use it because they can and they don't stop to think of the hurt they may be causing others. It's the respect they lack that upsets me. The ignorance they show by repeating the word in everyday language. And only WE, as a society, can say ENOUGH! It has always been that way, and should always be that way. The problem is getting enough people to decide to stick together and refuse to allow it to continue. It will only stop when we refuse to allow it. The government didn't step in a outlaw other insulting terms/names... the racial and ethnic slurs... our society (or most of it anyway) just became intolerant of them, and so their use was limited. It WILL only stop when WE make it stop. People won't just say... "oh, you want me to be more aware, more intelligent in my speech, more thoughtful? Oh, alright.." Unfortunate, but true.
It's NOT allowed around me. My kids will NOT be going to see this movie (including my 19 year old college freshman who told me he works to hard to spend his money on this form of trash). I have become totally intolerant of this form of speech, and especially of this word. That may make me difficult, touchy, etc., but there it is...
JMHO Sheryl
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Post by Googsmom aka Jennifer on Aug 18, 2008 18:42:06 GMT -5
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Post by victoriasdad on Aug 18, 2008 20:33:36 GMT -5
i agree whole heartedly with you guys ! we make up society, that is wy as part of society have to say enough is enough, btw the government did step in and outlaw the use of some words if they are connected to harrassment or violence, when a racial slur is used before during or after an act of violent that that constitutes a hate crime and in my state is punishable for up to two years in prison, my friend is a hispanic police officer, a skin head punk called him a sp.... and punched him in the face he got two years for the hate crime in addition to battery and the crime he committed in the first place. other instances of laws prohibitting free speech are yelling fire in a crowded theatre, committing a hoax, or just plain fraud, there is perjury, and obstruction if you tell an officer of the court a lie, but instead of making a law outlawing the use of the word retard we should change the way society uses the word. free speech should be protected but these people must learn that there are always consequences to what we say and do, ask your husband about free speech next time one of your kids calls you a bad name. (just an example, not to insinuate that that would or has happened)
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Post by Chris too on Aug 19, 2008 8:23:09 GMT -5
I do think that it ought to be "justifyable" to use a reasonable amount of violence (bloody nose) against people who refuse to curb their tongues. But then I tend toward vigilantism anyway
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Post by CC on Aug 19, 2008 23:24:15 GMT -5
K, just asking and I HOPE my name will not be "MUD" here for asking this... BUT how many of you till you had a child with DS were offended by the use of the word "R" prior to having a child with DS?? Just wondering and not trying to start anything just truly wondering CC ~
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Post by Googsmom aka Jennifer on Aug 19, 2008 23:34:14 GMT -5
I was never a "name caller" to differentlyabled kids at school. Been called too many and know how it feels. I never really advocated loudly untill Mary went to school and kids were making fun of her for being slower than the rest of the class. Many times i've talked to the principle over hurtfull words. Brook will be no exception if she is getting picked on. I did, however, call my little sister names like bugs bunny b/c she had big teeth and Tina Turner b/c her hair was very curly and stuck out all over the place. She just turned 30 yrs old and still has a complex. I feel HORRIBLE for picking on my sister. I often feel it is all my fault for her panic attacks. I love my sister truely, she is my best friend, I just picked on her when we were kids a bit tooo much.
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Post by victoriasdad on Aug 19, 2008 23:34:22 GMT -5
i am guilty of using the word, when i was young we called each other M.R. my wife never used the word and would not tolerate its use in her presents ever, before i didnt understand the pain and hurt the word causes, because i now have been "educated"i know better, how much money did christopher reeve spend on spinal cord injury research before he broke his neck? its all relative to our situation, so im a hypocrit but it doesnt make me wrong and now that i have been "educated" i get to "educate others ,, nothing more offensive than a reformed smoker;)
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Post by Emilysmom on Aug 20, 2008 6:55:43 GMT -5
Calling someone a "retard" has always been offensive to me............it has always had that very negative, hateful sound to it, and I've never used it; even as a teen. None of my kids have ever used it either. HOWEVER, as I've posted before here.......before Emily was born, I didn't really understand the impact of the casual phrase "that's so retarded". I never associated that phrase with any person with mental retardation at all. But, I also didn't personally use that phrase either. My best friend at the time Emily was born assured me that she would never use the word again and THAT is when it really hit me that the phrase was inappropriate. My children have never used it............they wouldn't have been allowed to say it, but I don't ever remember a time they tried it. They have had talks with their friends about the use of the "R" word by starting out "You know, at our house we are not allowed to use that word because...................". Great way to start others thinking about it, I say! Again, there are other terms that may very well be equally offensive (We've talked about those........"idiot, moron, that's insane, etc") that we have used in the past and I have decided to stop saying those too. Like others have said, when we realize something is offensive...........changing your behavior is always a good thing!!! Does it make you a bad person for EVER saying hurtful things?? I don't think so!!!! I grew up during the years when segregation first began, and I was raised by my grandmother who had always used the "N" word. When I went to school for the first time and black children came to our school............do you think that ANY of us continued to use the "N" word? NO! And, I had friends who tried it and were beaten up because of it! They learned that their words STUNG, and they learned it fast. Maybe we've been way too kind about people continuing the use of the "R" word for too long? ?
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Post by elizabethsmom on Aug 20, 2008 10:42:15 GMT -5
I was never someone who used the word retard, or retarded. I just didn't like how derogatory it sounded. My children weren't allowed to use it, and my husband (and ex-husband) do not and have not used it in my presence. However, I also don't like the words shut-up, stupid, idiot, etc and they don't use them in my house either. I prefer more thoughtful words such as please be quiet, etc. And I don't like name calling AT ALL, so that eliminates the incorrect usage of the other terms.
However, that being said, I don't think I fully understood how hurtful the word retard can be to others. Do I think it's wrong or hypocritical for those who used to use it to now demand others to stop. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Everything in life is fluid, and every change happens somewhere. If you didn't understand how hurtful it was, then someone explained it to you, then you should quit using it.
That's all I expect from others. I'm not horrified when someone uses the R word in front of me. I calmly explain how hurtful it can be, how it links Elizabeth with something very negative, and asked them not to use it. When they refuse, act mad, or purposely ignore me... well, that's when I get mad. Then they're being PURPOSEFULLY hurtful and that I won't tolerate!
So...while many of us may have done this or that in our past, I would hope as we've grown and experienced life, we've all changed and became better, more considerate ADULTS. That's how it's supposed to work.
And... good point regarding the Christopher Reeves foundation...I don't you'll find he gave millions of dollars to spinal cord injury prior to his riding accident... it hadn't touched his life. Same thing.
If we as parents don't educate others, who will?
Sheryl
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Post by carolyn on Aug 20, 2008 15:21:18 GMT -5
I agree with all that has been said- and especially Elizabeth's mom. I too believe if you do not believe in using words of that kind, shut up, idiot ect.... then you just don't use them. Ever. Words do hurt, and I ask you when IS an appropriate time to call anyone a "retard" or tell anyone to "shut up"? I say never.
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Post by Jackie on Aug 20, 2008 16:06:49 GMT -5
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Post by CC on Aug 20, 2008 19:58:19 GMT -5
Jackie ~ I absolutely LOVED the link you posted and personally I would rather see that running on the news shows that I have seen on this subject. Please let me explain I am with you guys, I do not believe the "R" word should ever be used to describe anyone. Just as its hurtful to some to call them ugly, fat, stupid... The list goes on sadly of hurtful words used on a daily basis I only asked if it bugged you before having one with DS just out of true wondering. For me yes I can say back when I was young I heard the "R" word used by many kids. Honestly even though it was not a word I myself used it really never bothered me one way or another. Once Chris was born YUP I can honestly say it bugs me. With all that being said I also agree bout advocating for our kids or anyone with a disability that is unable to advocate for them self. But with that being said I was told by a person I know here in my area that I "should be ashamed for NOT participating in the public uproar over this" Hmmm I just don't agree I am bad because I am not out condemning this flick. I advocate for my guy all the time and have for the last 15 years and will continue to do so in my way as long as I breathe air. To me the movie is sadly already out there, will I see it no, will I be angry at one if they chose to, honestly no. Seeing the link Jackie posted, now that is he kind of thing I would love to see on TV, played before movies such as this at a theater that is playing such a flick, KWIM I happen to enjoy Ben Stiller (sp?) but will not be seeing this one of his. Will I see any of his future flicks Yes I will in all honesty. I in no way have the answer how to get the use of the "R" from ever being used Just my humble opinion but handling it in a nice manner seems the way to go. Anywho, just wanted to clarify in case anyone wasn't sure, I am not for anyone using the "R" word or many other words actually that are used daily, but I just don't get so riled up as some. What I hope comes from this is more and more public advertising such as the link Jackie posted. I really think that would get more meaning out to the public, then seeing some parents protesting. CC ~
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