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Post by Emilysmom on May 4, 2006 19:52:05 GMT -5
I wanted to share about some stuff that has happened recently with Emily.........it has had my stomach in knots and my heart all torn up too, but I hope we are on our way to some positive things now. I have gotten a few calls lately from one of Emily's teachers, and went in to talk to her in person the other day. It seems that Emily has been doing some "odd" stuff, and all the teachers are concerned about it. She seems to be withdrawing a bit, not talking much at all, and on the playground she is removing herself from the other kids and standing in one certain spot and carrying on a very lively conversation with herself. ( One teacher tried to talk to her about it without any luck, so I tried.......and had even less sucess! She just did NOT want to talk about it at all. So, we headed to the Ds clinic today to see a developmental psychologist. I was really impressed with this woman, because she did an awesome job of bringing Emily out of her shell and getting her to respond to her questions. She did not talk down to her at all. She just asked questions and then sat still and waited till Emily answered them. I have found this to be SUCH a problem, normally! Many times, people ask her a question, and when she doesn't immediately answer, they toss out a different question to her and she has to start all over with forming her response. The most heart wrenching part of this visit was when the psychologist asked Emily what she liked to do at recess. Emily shrugged and said "I don't know". So, she asked Emily what all the other kids did on the playground, and Emily said "The boys play basketball". The woman asks her "Would YOU like to play basketball"? (I thought she would say YES, and the teachers had been saying they were afraid Emily was feeling intimidated because the 8th grade boys ..... BIG boys tend to dominate the court during recess). But, she giggled and firmly said NO, she did not want to play basketball. The woman asked her if she wanted to swing or play tetherball, and Em said no. Then, she asked her what all the other girls did at recess and Emily said "just walk around and talk". Lady says "would YOU like to walk around and talk"? And without missing a beat, Emily said "OH, I WISH I could"!!!!! It was the most perfect, clear, firm speech ever........and it really hurt to hear it. Apparently, it seems that no one has told Emily she CAN'T walk around with the other girls, but she doesn't FEEL like she can...........and she acted like it was because she didn't feel that she could keep up with the conversations. So, the counselor talked to her quite a bit about how she could just hang with the girls and she didn't NEED to talk....she could just listen. She seemed happy about that. I gotta tell you; the whole conversation seemed fairly grown up and also sad to me. The counselor said she wasn't worried about Emily NOW, but said there is a very high rate of depression in teens with Ds and we should watch closely for any early signs of that. Within just a couple minutes of our visit, Emily was laughing and making jokes with her and she said it was a very GOOD sign. Another thing that seems to be getting WORSE for Emily is her lack of eye contact with people. At home, she is very animated and looks right at us when she talks. At school, the fact that she tends to either close her eyes or look downward when people talk to her, really seems to put people off...........I mean, if I was a teenager, I would hesitate to talk to someone who refused to look at me! So, this counselor spent quite a while with Emily working on this. They practiced several possible scenarios, and Em answered her while looking directly at her. She also enjoyed having me get asked an occasional question too.........and I made sure to make VERY good eye contact! It started out to be a stressful day.........I was worried that it would be hard for Emily to talk about all of this, and she tends to associate the Ds clinic with lab tests and shots. But, when we left the hospital, She said to me "MAN! THIS was fun"!!! We headed out to eat and to do a bit of shopping, and that really was fun! A good day afterall! The IEP meeting is scheduled for one week from today, and the psyhcologist is sending a letter to the team with recommendations for Emily. Susan
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Post by mommygwen on May 4, 2006 20:00:03 GMT -5
Sigh.. That sounds so hard; and and so familiar. Greg is 13 and won't maintain I contact either. Boys will throw a ball or do something physical to connect. I glad Em got respect and good care at the Ds clinic. Gwen
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Post by Valerie on May 4, 2006 21:28:01 GMT -5
Susan, I'm sure that was all very tough on you! I know Nicholas is only 3, but I worry about the teenage depression thing, I've heard it's fairly common. I'm so glad she got to see the psychologist and it went so well! Hope it goes better at school, now!
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Post by Ericsmomma on May 4, 2006 22:25:06 GMT -5
So glad your visit went well....sure is tuff being a teenager!
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Post by hidyperson on May 4, 2006 23:12:19 GMT -5
I'm exhausted and have huge day tommorow, so as usual, I'm not going to pad it - sounds like an adult with Down Syndrome to me. Self talk, little eye contact - groove on the way. Here's the article on being groovy www.chw.org/display/displayFile.asp?docid=2554& filename=/documents/TheGroove.pdf and self talk at www.altonweb.com/cs/downsyndrome/agetalk.html. Let the mud flinging begin, but it seems ( to humble me, in my opinion, all the qualifiers... ) that are some differances between children with and adults with DS. Read the articles, and talk to people, I don't really think there's anything wrong with her, she's turning into an adult, one with DS - Jeff
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Post by hidyperson on May 4, 2006 23:17:40 GMT -5
Check this out - more of the same www.advocatehealth.com/adultdown/ and this from their book Mental Wellness in Adults with Down Syndrome A Guide to Emotional and Behavioral Strengths and Challenges with topics such as Community and Family Support Self-Talk Communication-related problems Memory Strengths and Deficits Emotional Development Tendencies toward Sameness and Repetition Self-Esteem Issues - Jeff
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Post by CC on May 4, 2006 23:17:50 GMT -5
Susan I know you have been having a bit of a tough time girl BUT how cool bout this Doc and her getting Em to open up like that Hmmm I am thinking here, any chance you may be able to get a service like this for Em, you know like someone she can talk to bout things, through your district to help Em open up a bit more and work on that eye contact?? I mean Man look how well this one visit went, could you imagine how much more GREAT stuff might come out of a few more visits, KWIM Honestly if you think of it we put our kids in these situations and want them to be included BUT who do they really have to talk it all out with, KWIM?? Being a teen is tough enough but being a teen with a disability is even harder, it just is, least in my mind. You very well may be able to get your district to pay for Em to see this Doc for some visits as an added service and you could tie the necessity of it into making the inclusion in school go smoother. K, we would have to come up with a better wording then just saying go smoother BUT I am sure there is a way this could be worded, I just have to think more. I am sooo HAPPY to hear how today went for Em and you, I was thinking of you both ALL day today CC ~
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Post by chasesmom on May 4, 2006 23:54:08 GMT -5
Awww Susan, I dont know why everytime Em has trouble it gives me a HUGE lump in my throat but it did big time today. HUGE HUGE HUGS to you and my sweet Emily. Why does growing up and interating with peers have to be so da** hard for our kids? And why do our kids have to deal with knowing they are different? My sweet sweet girl standing off by herself BTW....this time Jeff is wrong,.....sorry Jeff, I know way too many people with DS that are all grown up and and NONE of them stay off to themselves and talk. Emily is going thru exactly what the counselor said...yeah yeah I know, I think I am a know it all and in this case I am right :-*and all is going to be fine with my girl. I know what I am speaking of because you see..... I know Emily and she is seriously my idea of one awesome young teen with DS. So no negatives here today buddy, our girl will be fine, she ROCKS mister and is very self assured and independent and has great self esteem, none of what you are talking about extends to our girl Emily....of this I KNOW!!!!!! But dont worry, hey, we still like you ;)Everyone is wrong once in a while. Robin
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Post by ALLISA on May 5, 2006 6:17:46 GMT -5
Susan...hugs to you for sharing your pain. It is reassuring to know that everyone has bad days and bad feelings.....even our sweet Em who ROCKS (stole that from Robin). I know my Connor is 12 (nonDS) and he is having a tough time transitioning to the teens.....trying to figure out who he is and where he fits in, are old friends still there or have they changed and moved on ? He has mometnts when he is withdrawn and the eye contact goes when he is upset or mad....it's a tough time and I can't even imagine how much tougher it is to have DS on top of it all. Is there perhaps something else she can do during recess ? I know the "ideal" is to walk & talk with everyone else....BUT.....maybe she needs some other options......even just reading a book is preferable. Does she get PT still ? Maybe you could arange her PT during recess, then she would have something "busy" to do and cut out on time spent in class ? I have to agree with Robin and say that Em is going through pre-teen pain and NOT yet an adult with DS pain...she is clearly unsure of herself around peers, but happy and animated with you and others she is comfortable with. I'm glad the doctor was great and I am hoping the best for you guys ! Allisa
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Post by Emilysmom on May 5, 2006 6:35:17 GMT -5
Thanks for caring, Everyone......... JEFF~ I do think self talk is VERY common in teens and adults with Ds. Emily has done this for YEARS in her bedroom, and I have not complained one bit or worried that something was wrong. (I think Jackie once posted that 100% of the teens with Ds she knows do it). And really, I think Emily needs some time to talk non-stop without anyone saying "HUH" ?? But, to hear that lately she has been PREFERRING to do this on the playground, rather than doing anything else was nothing short of gut-wrenching to me. I don't think that has to be the "norm" at all!! I think that with more role-playing between her and everyone who loves her (I was amazed at how well she responded to this, and thought it was FUN), and some creativity on the part of the teachers on the playground..........not to mention a few positive experiences where Em realizes it is MORE fun to hang out with friends than to seclude herself, I think we can get her back to the place where she only does this at home in her room. Thanks for posting the links. I'll read them a bit later. I remember a discussion here a while back about "grooves", and it made a lot of sense to me. I'm not about to fling any mud your way. I appreciate that you care enough to respond. ROBIN~ SEE why you need to live in TN? ? You've always been such a good cheerleader for Emily!!! BUT, my fear was.........and the reason I took her to this psychologist, was this: Even though she SEEMS totally self assured around you and me and other family and friends, I honestly don't see her all that much at school, and I was so afraid that she had become totally UNself assured in that setting. I was seriously questioning whether inclusion was still "right" for her. I'm still going to be thinking about this long and hard in the next week before her IEP meeting. CHRISTIE~ I can't thank you enough for all the time you have spent "listening" to me pour my heart out about this topic over the last week!!!! It helped so much to have someone bring up new ideas that I hadn't come up with before. We will definitely be taking Em back to see this woman in the future, cause I was so pleased with how quickly Emily warmed up to her and talked to her. ALLISA~ One of the things I had considered before yesterday's visit was to work on getting Emily into doing something else during recess, and I still think that might be a good option...........especially if it might be PT, so she could still get the chance to get a little activity during that 30 minute time period. She'll be in high school the year after next (YIKES!!), and there will be no more "recess", and the free time between classes in a school as huge as our high school may be spent racing to class. I'm sorry to hear Connor is struggling a bit too..........it's tough being a pre-teen too!!! I have to say that I was hesitant to post about this experience, for fear of "worrying" the parents of younger kids who might not want to think about teenage stuff quite yet. But, as Jeff mentioned, it does happen and hey.............I've shared everything else about my girl, why NOT this? I think this might just be another one of those things we simply WORK ON over the years, a bit like her having eyesight problems. We can't ignore either one, and hope they go away. Susan
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Post by carolyn on May 5, 2006 7:28:56 GMT -5
Susan I for one like to read about you all with teenagers, it is after all something we will all have to reckon with. I can also tell you that I have 2 daughters, one 14, one almost 13 and they have struggles too. I am not ready to assign them adult baggage based on teenage angst.
And.....( I know I am making a big mistake here!)
Jeff: I think you love to throw a big wet blanket on those of us who try to remain postive. Not sure what the pay off is for you.
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Post by momofrussell on May 5, 2006 8:57:09 GMT -5
Well, I am late getting to this sorry I have to say, I was feeling like Robin.. in fact I was fighting tears after I read those words come out of Emily's mouth... I understand.. what a light bulb moment but how raw to hear that... that just broke my heart for her!!! But I am glad it was a very positive experience taking her to this doc.... you are a great mommy that knows when it's time to get things checked out! And yes EMILY ROCKS!!! Hey.. I was thinking... about the eye contact and social interaction stuff... I would maybe think of working it into her IEP even They do that for younger kids... why not make it a "goal" and IEP like??? Just a thought.... Hugs!!!! A.
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Post by maryerickson on May 5, 2006 10:50:52 GMT -5
Hi Susan,
Boy-your post sounds very simular to what my daughter Marissa went thru as a 7th grader in middle school!! She is now 15 years old and a 9th grader in high school. I wanted to share with you what worked for us and how we gave our daughter skills to deal with her feelings.
In 7th grade Marissa started to make alot of statements like "I want to be regular" , "Why do I have Down Syndrome?" and "I don't want Down Syndrome anymore". She even took to cutting her own hair to make it look like Devon(her good friend without DS) and would then come out and say to us that she did not have DS anymore!! We talked with her ,huged her and reassured her all we could that she was wonderfull just as she was. This was just putting a bandaid on her feelings. She needed to be validated and given skills that I was not able to do as her mom. Lucky for us her middle school had a teen counseler on staff. Marissa saw her one on one for 8 weeks. At the end of 8 weeks Marissa joined her noon time girls group that meet weekly. This was awesome for Marissa and really helped her to express her thoughts and feelings and see that ALL teenagers have parts of themselves that they wish they could change. The group was her place to feel safe and not judged. The peer support for her from the other girls in the group was invaluable.
Marissa is still dealing with her feelings on a daily basis-She now attends a weekly teen group of teens with Down Syndrome. It is so cool for her to be with other teens to see that she is not alone and have positive role models. The group is facilitated by a women who is also a family and child counseler.
As you can tell Iam big on groups!! Are there any that your daughter could get hooked up with? Also the one on one counseling was awesome for my daughter to open up and learn to express her feelings. Depression does not have to happen with our teens with intervention and support we can help them develope healthy attitudes towards themselves and the world around them.
You are such a great mom to jump right in and get help for your daughter and to share what she is going thru!!
Take care.
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Post by Annie S on May 5, 2006 11:52:55 GMT -5
Susan I am so glad that this therapist could help she sounds wonderful...I think its great how you stay on top of things ...I know even I as a teen was very introverted,,I know hard to believe lol...but I think all kids go through some hard times as a teen...Hugs to you all and sounds like it turned out to be such a fun day....Annie S
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Post by andrewsmom on May 5, 2006 12:54:46 GMT -5
Oh my gosh....kleenex, kleenex, kleenex. I feel so bad for her! Please send her here to me so I can just give her THE BIGGEST HUG!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know I have never even met you or Emily but I feel like I just want to protect her and make it all go away!!!! The teenage years are so hard. I think I read that she is 14??? Is that right? Mary...you send Marissa here to me too...ok?
I'm so glad this doctor got her to open up a bit and talk about things. She sounds like a GREAT doctor.
-Trisha
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