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Post by momofrussell on Oct 25, 2008 19:29:26 GMT -5
Jennifer, since you haven't been here for many years... yet We can ASSURE you that we have discussions like this from time to time and we really don't have "hurt feelings" and if we do, no one usually tells us. I can tell you that this board can USUALLY talk about most anything... We have had rogue posters but they are far few in between and don't have any right now. I think everyone is passionate about their views and since this DOES carry over into real life with kids w/spec needs, no matter who you vote for, it needs to be discussed. You wave the white flag like we are all out with daggers on here LOL.... it's all good my dear, use that white flag for the sites that need it Remember... like I said (in my Donna Summers voice) "I got my finger on the trigger".... heehee Party On Garth! A.
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Post by momofrussell on Oct 25, 2008 19:39:16 GMT -5
Oh.. and Radonna.. thanks for posting those links.... I personally think it's good to share different places to get information..... for both sides! And.... I appreciate all the experience you have with the Pentecostal religion since it was how you were raised.... I don't know if I'd believe that ALLLLLL Pentecostal's are all exactly the same, but at the same time I know that they are learing something the same way being in that "church".... so who knows really... about Palin or any other candidate and their relationshop with God for that matter... I think enough could be said about BOTH sides and the religion parts of them.. And again... none of these candidates are perfect..... I know people voting for Mc Cain that are NOT thrilled with every piece of him... but they are more willing to vote for him then Obama... and visa versa.. I know plenty that might not subscribe to everything Obama is but their bad taste from Bush leads them to Obama......It's definately going to be interesting come election day! As far as the pro life and death penalty stuff.... for me personally I could see both.... I guess some of us see them both as two apples... I see them as kind of an apple and an orange.... or maybe an orange and a tangelo? LMAO A.
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Post by CC on Oct 25, 2008 22:16:55 GMT -5
K, just have to ask cause I am wondering, LOL YES the wonder person here is wondering once again Honestly, all kidding aside I really want to understand. For you all that are pro life does that include if one was raped or incest (sp?) which resulted in one being pregnant? Say GOD FORBID a child with DS was raped, sorry I know that sounds so sad sad sad BUT God Forbid it did happen, would you Pro Lifers want the person that was wronged to carry a baby full term? I can honestly say I have NOOO motive here other then trying to learn where you are coming from. CC ~ Who also finds it hard to understand Pro Life people are also for the death penalty Life is Life isn't it? K, just remember I didn't bring this subject up
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Post by Jodi on Oct 26, 2008 1:31:14 GMT -5
Daaaaaang I've missed a lot LOL!!!! You guys are doing a great job playing fair Not to go completely off topic (seems this thread has gone in a few directions)... I do think that Palin does have to put up with a lot from both men and WOMEN... more than Biden by far. Women just seem to be tough on women, which makes me crazy sometimes. Seems like some are held to an even higher standard sometimes. Anyhow - thanks to you gals for keeping it interesting Jodi PS - CC, my friend (and I mean that) I think the trouble with some of this stuff is that some of us just have a different perspective. We were raised in a conservative or liberal setting, in a community that is close or diverse, come from different religious backgrounds, and have different philosophies. One could argue what is morally right. Well, that depends on your set of morals. There are things that other cultures do to children that we would absolutely find morally repugnant, sinful, unlawful, outrageous, etc. But because as a large group (nation) some of us believe in the death penalty and some don't, the line is more blurred. You can't see another persons perspective if you really are not open to it, which many say they are but really are not. Hope that makes sense. Keep wondering... it makes life interesting
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Post by Ericsmomma on Oct 26, 2008 4:05:45 GMT -5
I am both pro-life and against the death penalty. We just had a trial here in which a young man, age 18 years, set a neighbors house on fire because of a cellphone dispute. The result was 6 family members (4 of them children) being killed. Also 8 firemen were injured. Such a tragedy! The jury was to vote for the death penalty or prison....they chose prison and gave him the maximum sentence. Alot of people felt he deserved the death penalty, and I could see why they felt this way. But I was brought up to believe life is sacred, any life, and that hate begets hate. Thats just my feelings. About the rape of a person with a disability that results in pregnancy...if it affected the health of the person pregnant, then it would be for medical reasons. If not, I have to stick to my beliefs and continue the pregnancy, and be there for my child. Not a easy situation, and no easy clear cut answers.
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Post by Chris on Oct 26, 2008 9:00:52 GMT -5
CC~I believe human life begins at conception. I hold on to that belief because it is scientifically sound plus that is what the bible teaches. Incest and rape are horrific and my heart goes out to anyone who has had to endure such violence. I do not believe that it is okay to destroy the life of an unborn child even in the case of rape or incest. Two wrongs don't make a right. I have never been raped so I can only imagine the horror that these women go though but I don't believe terminating the life of their own child could help ease that pain.
Chris
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Post by ALLISA on Oct 26, 2008 10:06:16 GMT -5
I had a response all typed here..... and then I deleted it...... You are right CC, it IS an oxymoron to be pro-life for a fetus and not for a child rapist....but.....I am one who falls into that category...... My head is starting to hurt now from all the thinking....so.....I'm going to bury it in the sand......it is too deep of an issue and too emotional for me to tackle on a Sunday morning over coffeee....... Everyone else.....carry on......good luck to you and if you discover the answers to the Universe .....please let me know.......
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Post by ALLISA on Oct 26, 2008 10:55:37 GMT -5
okay....this is not a factual link....but I just thought it was creative and funny....I was going to add it in the off topic section....but why start a whole new thread.... Take it for what it is....a creative piece of cinema from Director Ron Howard : www.funnyordie.com/videos/cc65ed650d
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Post by Emilysmom on Oct 26, 2008 12:57:19 GMT -5
Awww...........it was nice to see Andy and Opie again; even if I disagree with their politics. And was it me or did the Fonz look just the same as ever?
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Post by Renee' on Oct 26, 2008 20:24:01 GMT -5
I don't believe much of anything I read on the internet. People can even alter Wikipedia. I can find 100 websites that claim Mc Cain is the Anti-Christ and one 100 that say Obama will save all of man kind.
I too cant wait until Election day.
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Post by Chris too on Oct 26, 2008 21:54:19 GMT -5
CC, if a person believes that a child is a human being (a person) from the moment of conception, as I do, the whole question of abortion gets turned on its head. If as Horton proclaims "a person's a person no matter how small" (& would add, no matter where they are currently located), then we have an issue of a person's basic right to life balanced against another person's right to pursue happiness - no contest. We don't grant a rapist the right to pursue his happiness at the expense of another's right to liberty; we don't grant a murderer the right to pursue his happiness at the expense of another's right to life; so why in the world would we allow an abortionist the right to pursue a buck at the expense of another's right to life?
In the absense of absolute proof of personhood or not, we ought always to side with the angels - to err on the side of protecting the innocent life in the womb, instead of trying to mitigate one crime (rape/incest) by the possible commission of another. Abortion does not make a person un-pregnant; it does not undo the crime commited against the rape victim; it cannot "heal" anyone. Abortion kills a human life every time. That knowledge is within every pregnant woman who aborts & she can't escape it - the evidence has borne that out in serious depression & increased incidence of suicide.
I hope that answers your question. If not, try me on another.
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Post by elizabethsmom on Oct 27, 2008 10:55:52 GMT -5
I will pipe in on this one, just my opinion. I am a labor and delivery RN who has worked high risk obstetrics for 10 years. I am also pro-life, including if it involves rape or incest. This is why: I have cared for women who have aborted for those reasons in my career. They have told me (all of them), that whether you are pro life or pro choice (and they have been both), aborting the child did not help them. It didn't "take away" the pain of the rape, it didn't stop them from thinking about it or diminish the hurt. What it DID do, however, was add guilt to their rape. They then had to deal with the rape AND the abortion. A couple of them have also went on to have difficulties with either conception or retention of the pregnancy and felt they were being punished (we all know this is not the case, and could medically explain their difficulties, which shows they had been carrying that guilt around with them and it then reared it's ugly head). In retrospect, they didn't feel it was the best thing to do. So.. I believe it's better to carry the baby, and if you can't face the baby every day without remembering, there are couples who will take him/her without a blink. I've seen it.
Now, as far as abortion vs. death penalty... I am pro life, also pro death penalty in extreme cases. There is a difference with an innocent life and that of one who knew the possible consequences of their actions and chose to inflict so much pain anyway. I don't see how the 2 connect at all. One doesn't get a choice, the other chose to disregard the consequences and the harm he's caused.
Just my humble opinion Sheryl
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Post by Radonna on Oct 27, 2008 13:32:33 GMT -5
Being Pro Choice doesn't mean you are pro abortion. It just means you believe it's important that choice is protected.
It isn't a far fetched idea that one day pregnancies with poor prenatal diagnosis could be illegal to carry to term. It's even more likely that insurance companies could one day deny coverage to people that choose to CCT and to cover the children born to woman that choose to have them. Already some insurance companies require genetic testing and deny coverage to people that have the gene for Huntington's disease they can also tell if you are more likely to develop medical conditions and consider them pre-existing just because you carry the gene for them.
In my heart of hearts I am pro life. (I also support the death penalty ) but I will always vote to protect the choice of the woman. Choice is so important because one day you may not be on the side of the moral majority.
I've gotten chain emails that say that Barack Obama supports late term abortions when the fact is the bills he voted against he voted against because there was already legislation on the books that banned late term abortion the new law was just worded differently to further limit the choice of the woman.
George Bush is very pro life and appointed supreme court justices that are pro life but still after eight years abortion is still very much legal. The fact is electing someone because they are for or against the right to have an abortion is not going to change very much. Because Obama is pro choice there will not be more abortions performed just like is crazy to expect because McCain is pro life for there to be less abortions performed
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Post by advocate4myself on Oct 30, 2008 17:08:09 GMT -5
I consider voting a priviledge. I feel honored to do something such as voting for my country. I sometimes think people forget what a honor and priviledge it is. It is up to the person who is voting whether they want to share their decision on who they voted for. I don't like to talk much about politics when it comes to who I vote for. Sometimes it can cause too much of a spirited conversation and I can't always think of what to say quickly in defense. I just want a safer society to live in and good heath care........Debbie
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Post by twosomy21 on Oct 31, 2008 0:16:13 GMT -5
I just want a safer society to live in and good heath care........Debbie
you got my vote!
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