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Post by hidyperson on Apr 12, 2006 18:40:50 GMT -5
Cindy - great post. When our roommate moved in with us we took the stance that she was adult who needed help with some things. That is true, and we do ask her what she wants. Then there are the times she wants to wear sneakers in a blizzard. Telling her it's -100000 and snowy ( which she can see ) sadly has no effect because she sees it as 'too much work'. Other days' she just says 'okay'.
I'm keenly aware of 'you're not the boss of me'. I know she can't say and she must hate being directed. We try and let her just be herself, step when we have to and suggest, which about half of the time leads to bossing. I wish it never did. I think it comes from her 'can't be bothered' filter for decision making. Something we can't change. Suffering the consequences seems to have little effect. But sometimes does. You never know.
Time and expectations have changed some of this, but the new scenarios often bring the whole circus up again. I think it's an on going process, and we always fall back on 'giving her benifit of the decision' and hoping it's a good one - Jeff
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Post by mommygwen on Apr 12, 2006 23:07:08 GMT -5
What ever we need to teach takes extra time. I try to bring some behaviour up to apropriate age level because they are so important, e.g. shake hands not hug when meeting people because he now 5'6" and 140 pounds and could knock over a little old lady. Other things I leave at little boy level. I take him to the bathroom with me when we are out because he loves to play in water and I don't want to take any risk with what he might do unattended in a public bathroom.
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Post by cindylou on Apr 13, 2006 15:51:45 GMT -5
Jeff- I really understand what you mean when you say " We try and let her just be herself, step when we have to and suggest, which about half of the time leads to bossing. I wish it never did. and we have the same issue with Kaylee. It's a power struggle--and really takes pre-thinking for me to figure out how she can have the power, but that either choice is a workable one for me. Does that make sense? Quite frankly, I'd hide the flip-flops and tennies in the blizzard weather--so her only choice would be black boots or red boots. But, how far ahead can we plan? The big thing for us right now has been her not eating breakfast before school. Drives me crazy. But I had to give it up. There's tons of teens that don't eat breakfast-I try to get her to pack a snack-sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't. She'll have a cup of tea if I make it. Kaylee talks back a lot--but I realized that if I'm not ordering her around there's not much to talk back about. "When you're ready - get in the car-I'll be out there waiting, school starts in a few minutes." Then I walk out to the car and sit in it. She can't argue with me if I'm not standing there staring at her (do any of you do this??watch them closely to make them do it??? Totally makes Kaylee act worse--so I leave the room and try to take the negative energy with me Jeff- I so admire your committment to your room mate. It's certainly not any easy, quiet life--and to know that you chose this--well, I just have a great deal of respect and admiration for you. Hoping Kaylee runs into plenty of people like you and your family throughout the course of her life--that are committed to her success and being held accountable for what they can do and understand--and being helped through the rest of it all-- Jessie- I do understand about not wanting to let him get away with it becaue it does end up being a disservice to him--and eventually to the people he works with/spends time with-outside the family. Have you thought about teaching him a replacement phrase that is more acceptable. like "Give me 5 minutes Dad." or one that Kaylee says now "I'm making up my mind" (to make a good choice--and when she says that--she eventually makes the perfect and appropriate choice) but she is telling me that that was HER choice, and she could've chosen the wrong one if she wanted. It's all about power and control. Our kids are very smart--and they 'get' that they have the power to make us crazy. ;D
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Post by hidyperson on Apr 13, 2006 17:00:24 GMT -5
Cindy - thanks for the response, yea removing the shoes before hand is the only solution. we try and anticipate a LOT. No it’s the winter to spring change over and it will take forever to get her out of her winter woolies.
My roommate doesn’t talk back a lot - she ignores us. Aaarghhh! Or she say’s “ I like it” then she shoves her head back into a magazine and ignores us. That one feels like “**** you”.
But her self talk can also consist of an on going mumble of “I don’t wanna have a bath. No Bath. Uh uh. Not having a bath.....” right after she said, “ sure I’ll have bath.” This can go on for half an hour. We just have to leave the room. I’m surprised I don’t bite my own paw off some days.
But as you asked, we did chose her and she did chose us. And it is a good fit or we wouldn’t be doing it. I just finished booking a couple great places for our summer vacation, for ALL of us to go - Jeff
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Post by Jessie on Apr 14, 2006 9:47:04 GMT -5
Jeff & Cindy - both of your examples had me chuckling because we do go through the same things with Jason. This is where I get torn about some things though and let's use the shoes as an example. I would consider that to be somewhat of a redirection action and to me that equals avoidance. We take away their choice, shoes in this case, so as not to argue with them. That doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to argue with Jason, but at the same time I don't think it's humanly possible to anticipate every situation that could come up and cause friction, nor do we necessarily want to do that. I think he needs to learn negotiation, compromise, to make correct decisions . . . and to just do what he is told to do sometimes, I mean geez, we are the adults in the house! This spills over into the classroom as well. His teacher knows he has improved dramatically in many areas, but when it comes to transitioning to a new task or them telling him to do something he doesn't want to do, there are problems. We came up with a redirection type of plan during his IEP for these situations. As stated above, I'm not crazy about redirection for all situations, but if this helps the classroom run more smoothly we will go with it and really work on his behavior at home. Cindy, if Jason could verbally respond that way, it would help tremendously. However, he simply does not speak that well to communicate and that does add an element of frustration for him and for us. So . . . any other suggestions? ? Seriously, I posted this because I'm open to hearing suggestions about how to handle situations like this. The verbal responses from Jason are just not an option for us right now. Here's an example I was just telling A. about the other day. Dinner is almost ready so we yell up to Jason (his room is upstairs) to come down for dinner. We end up telling him this about 4 or 5 times and are starting to get really aggravated that he's ignoring us. I'm ok with telling him something more than once for him to have time to digest the info, but once we get past 3 or 4, I'm starting to get annoyed. So, he finally emerges and we realize that he was getting dressed (he usually strips to his tighty whiteys right afer school ). If he could have said, "hold on I'm getting dressed", life would have been much more simple. However, that is simply not what happens. And, this example is mild . . . it's the throwing tantrums at other people's homes that REALLY gets our goat! Jessie
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Post by hidyperson on Apr 14, 2006 20:22:56 GMT -5
Jessie - I hear ya, but " learn negotiation, compromise, to make correct decisions . . . and to just do what he is told to do sometimes, could also have me laughing out loud. If her nose isn't out of joint, and that one is hard to anticipate, she can " compromise, to make correct decisions" - but is it is, and early morning it's almost impossible to get her to anything out side of her groove, she pulls the adult floop and drop. She doesn't negotiate, compromise,or make correct decisions. She doens't care. We could all die by meteor fall and only her shoes could save us - and she doesn't care. It's not what she WANTS. I get very little milage out of logic with her. Even pleading doesn't really work. Sometimes silly songs do. But I always have to sway her emotionally. This tells me that negotiation and comprimpromise are mostly out side of her scope. And making correct decisions... that seems to be an inverse skill. I REALLY wish it was differant and sincerly hope it goes better for you guys. Oh - our roommate who talks non-stop, will do the same thing your son does if she's dressing or something. Oh well - Jeff
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Post by Jessie on Apr 14, 2006 21:19:41 GMT -5
OMG - the adult flop and drop - tell me it ain't so!!!!!!! LOL
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Post by mommygwen on Apr 14, 2006 21:22:12 GMT -5
I had to laugh with recognition about taking of clothes after school and then not answering because he's getting dressed for dinner. Greg is 13 and does the same thing unless I give him something to do. He was very happy when we had a mulch pile to move. When he got antsy for something to do he took himself out the work on the mulch pile. The past few days he has given himself the job of gathering all the Easter decorations into one basket.I put them back where I want to display them and later he mooshes them back into one basket. I guess the wreath on the door, bunnies on the mantle and separate baskets for each child seems disorganized to him. He doesn't like changes or too many choices. I'd forgotten how well silly songs help, I'm glad Jeff reminded me of it. Maybe a song about about answer when you're called will help. The speech therapist suggested "social stories" . A little book with what you want to happen really happening. e.g. "This Mommy is calling her son. He says "yes, Mommy". The Mommy says "please come here." The boy goes to his Mommy." .....ummmm I haven't tried it. because I'm reading more age apropriately to him for my own sanity. I'm fed up with short sentances and bouncy rhymes.
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Post by myangelsaliandsadi on Apr 15, 2006 1:53:09 GMT -5
This is such a tough question for me... because right now my girls are only 2 and 3. My two year old has an autistic spectrum disorder and seizures...my 3 year old has DS and seizures. When neither one is actively seizing discipline is a whole lot easier. I know exactly what they understand, exactly what level they are at ect. However, all it takes is one seizure, or one day of seizures to regress them several months. (This is mostly a problem with my two year old.) For the most part my daughter with DS stays on the same level or is at least easier to read where she is at. Behavior issues are NOT tolerated. She rips a book she goes in time out, she hits, bites, whatever and she goes into time out. Things which are dangerous such as outlets, going outside, unbuckling her carseat, ect might warrant a slap to the hand. However, with my two year old that does no good because she doesn't feel pain until it is extreme. I have seen so many different examples of kids with DS from 2-22 years old. I have seen 2 year olds that were better behaved than the teenagers. It is very obvious when watching the parenting that the problem comes from them in most cases. Then there is the ever so typical sassy little 13 year old girl who is smarter than me, but tries to act dumb to get away with behavior. It doesn't work. Right now I think my feeling on this topic is that we are going to handle it to the best of our abilities, judging by the kids abilities. Right now Ali is the obedient one and I hope it stays that way... for the most part if I tell her no she listens. It's when the seizures start and she forgets what she has learned that we have a problem. Peanut on the other hand is not obedient...and if she hears me tell Ali not to do something, Peanut does it just to piss me off. Oh, I'm going to have fun when they are 13.
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Post by cindylou on Apr 15, 2006 11:25:48 GMT -5
Jessie- you wrote- "Cindy, if Jason could verbally respond that way, it would help tremendously. However, he simply does not speak that well to communicate and that does add an element of frustration for him and for us. So . . . any other suggestions? ? Seriously, I posted this because I'm open to hearing suggestions about how to handle situations like this. The verbal responses from Jason are just not an option for us right now." So, since I don't know Jason and all of our kids are so different--I would ask---does he 'get it' when you give him instruction? (hope that doesn't sound offensive-just trying to understand where Jason is at) If he's just missing the verbal ability-but gets directions and what you're expecting from him--you could explain to him (and yes, supposedly 'social stories' work well as ali's mom pointed out) what you're expecting and offer a reward chart if he does respond appropriately? I know that since they implemented a behavior reward plan for Kaylee at school she stays on tasks-completes her work-transistions independently - and earns up $50 of pretend money (they only give her $5 stickers on her behavior sheet-she can earn up to 10 of those a day). She can either bank that money (after counting it out loud) and they graph it with her to save toward a more expensive purchase-or she can buy something daily with it. Little trinkets. A gel pen, some sea shells, a hair thing. If she banks it she can buy a $5 target card with it at the end of the week. She is highly motivated by money and this plan has worked for her. Remember that as adults we don't really do things if we get nothing for it. We work, we get paid. We clean, we have a coffee break. Men mow, they have a beer. So, I don't consider the need to have incentives as a bad thing. Implementing a family behavior plan could be very positive for you all--I know I already provide an incentive for everything--examples: American Idol is on at 8. Take your shower now (at 7:30) and then you can watch it. [/list]Do your homework, then I'll shoot hoops with you Memorize the countries of Africa (two weeks of daily work) and then in two weeks we'll go to the movies- Jessie- the throwing tantrums thing happens for us sometimes also--what concrete repruccsion could there be for that? Maybe you could take along with you pictures of his most prized possesion and when he throws a tantrum you could show him one and say "This will be taken a way for a week if you don't get up by the count of three and stop yelling." Counting to three did work wonders for Kaylee several years ago. I think you should try having a sit down talk with him when things are quiet and explain your concerns (use social stories if you can-pictures with situations-kind of like cartoon strips) and tell him what will happen next time your at aunt sue's if he throws a tantrum. Or - rather then punish-- before you go to Aunt Sues offer him the ability to earn something for good behavior while there. And if he goes in to tantrum mode - show him the incentive- I don't know -- I'm just throwing out ideas here. What does his speech path say?? Usually they are really good at getting good behavior plans in place for Kaylee. JEFF--Where are you guys going on vacation??? And yes, Kaylee is a pain in the morning--unless I can find something she likes to eat (help me out here- can't find a healthy breakfast choice that she likes) to motivate her out of bed-we just have to start her 15 minutes before everyone else. I think if I taught her how to use the espresso machine she might have incentive to get up because she always wants to make us our espresso in the morning. hmmm...just a thought- She'll get out of bed whenever I say "French Toast! or pancakes! or bacon!" or if I say -Can you get Sam up? (He's our 2 year old) yep-gotta think outside the box. and I agree-swaying emotionally is something that works for Kaylee--but to me that's not necessarily a bad thing-means she's motivated by a relationship - and that's understandable. We all have to figure out what their currency is--as Dr. Phil would say-and then use that. For me-my currency right now is the gym--I'll do everything just so I can get there for an hour and a half because it my mental health time. Kaylee's is her friends in the 'hood (which we are very fortunate to have) and going out to play with them--I get a lot of mileage out of that.
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Post by Jessie on Apr 15, 2006 11:56:03 GMT -5
Jason does "get" what we are saying to him - excellent receptive skills, poor expressive skills.
I LOVE the suggestion of taking a picture of his prized possessions with us! That's kind of where we struggle with the discipline part . . . if we are out somewhere and we don't get home right away it seems kind of pointless at that point to go back and say, "remember when you were acting like a butt head, well NOW we are going to punish you". When we are in the moment of a tantrum he is just too big of a kid to give him a swat on the butt, so that's not an option.
When he has had his GameBoy with him that has been used or if we are leaving he is made to sit up front in the vehicle and not able to watch his DVD's in the backseat. But, if I have pictures of his Harry Potter DVD's, his dinosaurs, his TV, I think that might help - heck it's worth a shot!!!
As far as breakfast goes - Jason is not a picky eater - but tell him he is getting hashbrowns for breakfast and he almost flies out of bed. If Kaylee is a carbo junkie, hashbrowns might do the trick!
Thanks.
Jessie
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Post by Claire on Apr 15, 2006 21:06:48 GMT -5
Adam is 8. We had several test done in Ottawa. They said that he was at an emotional level of a 2-3 years old, (so tantrums and the whole stuff) receptive wise they said he was at about 5 but the cognitive of the receptive was at a 3 year old. So basically all that says is that when he does something that a 2-3 year old would do, we treat it as so, including discipline. We would not let a 3 year old have tantrums or hit so we deal the same way with Adam as any other child. Even though he can read at a grade 1 level does not mean he actually is 6. Teachers have a hard time understanding that I think sometimes. To us living with him every day and having had 3 other children not DS we see Adam's attitude as a 3 year old no matter what the test say. There is nothing wrong with it, but we do have a lot more consistancy when it comes to discipline with him then we did with the others. Social Skills and Life Skills to us are the 2 most important skills. If he can read and write it's a bonus. But he has lots of time to learn all that stuff. Being a child first is what is the most important. :DJust my opinion.
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Post by poojamom on Apr 15, 2006 22:28:26 GMT -5
Pooja is 11, Mornings are the worst hit for us Sometimes I feel she is just sluggish,sometimes she is just stubborn, she would rather listen to her 4yr old brother than us. The days she has had a good morning she comes home with all good behavior check marks from school. Many a times It's me who need the motivation and patience to get thro' the morning madness than her. ;D. I try to wake her up early and give her extra time before school, letting her watch15-20 mnts of T.V sometimes works. I know the "selective Hearing" stuff pooja pulls. We can be calling her at the top of our lungs, she won't even respond,yet at the sound of the T.V going on she will be down in a minute.
About the consequences for her unacceptable behavior, she gets a time out, loses her T.V time, playing with the neighborhood kids, Most often though she forgets her bad behavior and it becomes hard for us to choose an appropriate consequence or even talk about it later.
i guess we need to Pick our battles and take it day by day.
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Post by CC on Apr 16, 2006 1:14:04 GMT -5
Hey Cindy you said "The big thing for us right now has been her not eating breakfast before school. Drives me crazy" Hmmm LOL girl you would really be bugged here Chris has never ever eaten breakfast except for when he was one year old and on the bottle He acutally LOVES eggs and susage but for lunch or dinner, go figure, but NOT frist thing in the am BUT you know what girl I never ate breakfast either, still don't except for the occasional, lets ALL go out for breakfast on a Sunday now and then I know, I know, they say BREAKFAST is the most important meal of the day BUT Hmmm honestly who is "They" that say that K, I am off the subject at hand here I have been reading this thread with much interest and I may be wrong but what I get is we all do what works for our kids/young adults weather it be age appropriate or cognitive level. And really what does it matter as long as it works. Thats the goal we are all aiming for right, that it works Personally I will do the 1 2 3 with Chris till he is 40 if thats what it takes which I am hopeing it won't be till he is 40 but you KWIM. Jessie girl this may sound off the wall BUT have you ever thought of doing practice runs with Jason taking him places to learn how to leave when told without a fuzz?? Chris does not do well with transitions of any kind OMG to get him in the car say to go to the A&P was such a big deal but once he was in the car he was fine, KIWM then once he got to the A&P he didn't want to go home. So for him what I saw was the boy needed help in that area and we actually make him do transitions just for getting use to it. Hmm hope that made sense, its late, i can't sleep so the mind is a bit off, more then normal, LOLOL CC ~ who is unable to sleep, to much testing the Easter chocolate I think LOLOL
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Post by momofrussell on Apr 16, 2006 8:42:27 GMT -5
LMAO CC.. and the chocolate....
Actually... I don't know about who "they" is... on the breakfast thing... but whomever "they" is LMAO... knows that our body needs energy, ect.. and that is what breakfast is for. It's VERY important for our bodies actually. That said... Regan was NEVER a breakfast person.. neither was I... but since Regan is older... she now TRIES to eat something before school. And I have a nutrigrain bar and some milk usually. But yes.. not everyone does the breakfast thing...
A.
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