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Post by Emilysmom on Apr 16, 2006 17:28:29 GMT -5
GREAT topic Jessie!!! I have read this thread with interest for the past week, and I think my feelings about it now are a bit different than when I first read it. LOL My first reaction would have been that we are very firm with Emily behaviorally and expect good behavior with her just like we do with her brothers and we do not make exceptions for where she might be cognitively. Today, I say "yeah right"!!!!! I have noticed over the past week, that there really are ways where my expectations for her really ARE a bit different............whether that is because she is a girl and our other kids are boys, or whether it is because we just tend to cut her a bit of slack, I'm not exactly sure! But, I will say that I have always hated those tests that state that she is cognitively a ___ year old. Emily has never ever tested well, and I do not believe that any of those test results really show us what she is capable of knowing/doing/understanding, etc. I think that instead of looking at it like "she tests at a 9 yr old level, so we'll discipline her as we would a 9 year old", I think we have just tended to do what seems right at the time and deal with her behaviors, etc based on what we know she can handle. I have lots of examples, but here are just a few:
We know that Emily struggles to wake up in the morning and get ready for school. She just requires more sleep than the boys! So, even when it is hard to do it, we make her go to bed earlier and that seems to prevent the struggles in the morning.....even though she might not like the fact that she's going to bed earlier than her brothers. They tend to be able to handle less sleep without getting grumpy the next day. Invariably, when she gets enough sleep, getting her up and moving in the morning is SO much easier and she can do what she needs to do on her own. I'm busy getting ready for work in the morning and don't need hassles then!!
Then there is a struggle we tend to have with her.............she wants to sit in the front seat of the van with the driver or to sit by Terry and me at church, in restaurants, etc and is NOT a happy camper if the boys get the seat she wants. I have watched this situation unfold so many times, and it really does not seem like the boys WANT to sit by us........they just love seeing her get upset! So, we tend to "give in" and give her what she wants in this case. In that way, I guess maybe we are encouraging this behavior! But man...........how many 14 year old girls really WANT to sit next to their parents????? So, this is just one example of where we sort of give in to her. Otherwise, with backtalking and disobeying and other things, we discipline her pretty consistently.
I'm not sure if that is the kind of thing you were referring to at first, but it has been really interesting reading all the responses!!
Susan
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Post by SuziF on Apr 17, 2006 10:32:11 GMT -5
I guess I see it as safety issues then behavior issues. I asgee with Cindy & don't want any of my kids to get away with tantrums. If Meri throws a tantrum, she'll be sent to her room. To the point that she knows now & runs there if she gets upset by something. Then on the other hand, each child is different. Chris mentioned about the crib & diapers. To me that depends on development & the safety. No matter what size bed Meri is in, she's most likely going to need rails on it because she's all over the bed. It has nothing to do with crib vs/ twin ~ it's what keeps her safe. Many disabled kids & young adults need surrounded beds, or a low bed. Potty training will come when your child is ready too. I wouldn't expect a child who wasn't there yet to give up Pull Ups or whatever just because they hit a certain age. SOme of the things that came up on this theread are the school issues I've worried about. If a child is included with his 13yo class, but mentally 6, there ARE going to be certain differences & allowances that need to be made. I don't feel that taking away Dora or banning Kids Bop are really in the best interest of the child. That seems more to me like the parents have issues withhow they're viewed by the outside world. It's the whole acceptance issue. You can encourage more age appropriate programs, but we all have things we don't like ourselves & wouldn't watch The whole issue is so mixed & you really do have to follow your heart. Suzi
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Post by steffipoo on Apr 17, 2006 11:18:02 GMT -5
Cindy... HI I completely get your response here. I am in the same situation myself here. Am I being too bossy thing??? Ya know I have found that what works for our family is just putting the problem back ON the person who's causing it rather than letting them rule the roost and have complete dominance over my moods and emotions.. I remember hearing on a show how they do these interventions with drug addicts and taking something the counselor said and applied it to our own lives here. When someone is causing a problem, I give em back the problem rather than me getting all wound up or upset. So Olivia was doing the I am not getting dressed thing or do anything for that matter in the morning. WELL me? I got crazy with yelling and it just started out my day on he wrong note for sure. So after hearing about this technique I started to let Liv say NO and ignore her after I told her to do it or I will take her late and she can explain why? to the principal. I know she thought I'd never take her up on it but I did the 1st time. She was MORTIFIED when I took Kyle to school with her still in her jammies and drove back home till she could get dressed and do all her stuff. She cried and cried NO MOMMY PLEASE Don'T MAKE ME GO TO MISS SO and SO'S office. Well we got there late i tapped on the vp's door and explained our situation and that Liv would like to talk to her. Liv did was humiliated, and now rushes to get ready on time.She was soo funny she walked in the vps office explained exactly why she was late and was spoken to and then went to her class. LOL....FOLLOWING THRU EVERYTIME!!!!! it sucks but it works to destroy bad habits faster than anything in our house. HUGS .... its a very fine line isn't it girls??? BOY life can be so perplexing ...YIKES Steff
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Post by chasesmom on Apr 17, 2006 12:43:32 GMT -5
I just read thru the thread with great interest....you guys are the best, LOL, except for Jeff who has given me nightmares for the upcoming nights for probably the rest of my life.......what'd ya mean "ADULT FLOP AND DROP" ?? Say it ISN'T SOOOO!!!!!! My 48 year old body can't handle his flop and drops now, so what happens when he is fifty pounds heavier and btw...what do you do when your roomie flops and drops now? Okay seriously....I see now that Chase is more alike then different right now from your kids, wayyyyy more alike So maybe his behaviors arent so different any more then the norm for our kids with DS? Chase throws a tantrum when he has to leave somewhere he doesnt want to, he also takes forever to answer us, he also goes down to tighty whiteys only his are now boxers as soon as he gets home, we argue about apporpriate foot wear and coats on a regular basis, and eeekkkk, you have made me so aware that we order Chase around instead of treating him like we do his brother Zach, I'd like to think it is because we have not been successful asking him to do something as his favorite word is no or simply ignoring us. We have however started giving him options rather then just orders but I can see we need to do that alot more. We discipline Chase when he is really naughty but I admit we try to ignore the small stuff...I'll be honest, Chase exhausts me, it is just so hard to get him to do anything, you have got to be here to even imagine what the school mornings are like and if someone could solve that dilema for me I would be eternally grateful. He wont get dressed, plain and simple, he refuses. He wont go to the bathroom, he hold s it and fights us, it is a power struggle. He also wont get out of bed unless you mange to get lucky and tickle him out of it on a good day. Sooooo, we man handle him all the way to the bathroom, force him to stay there until he goes, with him screaming and yelling and spitting at the toilet the whole time, even though you know his bladder feels the urge to burst, and you have to stay in ther or out he comes. We have tired bribes, options, threats, begging, and crying to get this child just through a simple body function and then he will be fine, although he WILL NOT get dressed and once again we have tried begging bribing, options, pleading, you name it....he will stand there or sit there and let me do it however (can you hear me growling) and I have tried saying he is wearing his jammies to school and let me tell you, he could care less. Once he is dressed, all is fine excpet me, who thinks every morning I cannnot make it thru another school morning and prays for the weekend and summer. Whatever...this thread is wonderful and you guys inspire me. BTW..I have taken away more of the baby tapes and replaced them with preteen type stuff, also the same with music, which Chase is loving and he is now into more sports reading and watching but I cant bear to take away his cars and trucks, he loves them you guys and it is okay with me if he plays with trucks til he is 40, I dont think it is going to hurt anything, he has easily given up his other toys Darn ...as exhausting as he is...no one makes me smile more or bigger then my monster man Chase!!!!! Why is it he can make my heart sing even on the bleakest of days like no one else can? hugs to you all, Robin PS ....Jesse, you sure make Chase and Jason sound an awful LOT alike!!!! I cant wait til we manage to arrange a get together, this is going to be funny...... oh man! And Connie..I am so very very impressed, I dont know if I'll ever be able to send Chase into a bathroom in public alone...eeekk, to think what he might do, strip, clog the toilet, etc etc, use your imagination:D
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Post by Chris on Apr 17, 2006 13:56:59 GMT -5
Suzi~I just wanted to clarify that I believe Sarah is developmentally ready to stop sleeping in a crib and potty train. She jumps so high in her crib that I am afraid she is going to fall out. I just haven't wanted to put her in a bed because I know she feels safe in her crib. I think she needs a little push to grow up.
As far as potty training, she shows all the readiness signs. She has picked one spot in our living room to hide and poop in her diaper. She is well aware of what she is doing and gets aggravated if we interrupt her. I believe her baby behaviors are not due to her still being a baby developmentally but are due to parenting problems. I think her dad and I are holding her back.
Let me add that Sarah is really, truly stubborn. Anyone who has ever worked with her always says she is the most stubborn child they have ever known. Fortunately, she is just as charming as she is stubborn. It is really tough to assess whether she is just being stubborn or if she just doesn't understand.
I guess all we can do is trust our gut and treat our child on a level that seems appropriate for that particular child.
Chris
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Post by hidyperson on Apr 17, 2006 14:46:21 GMT -5
" except for Jeff who has given me nightmares for the upcoming nights for probably the rest of my life.......what'd ya mean "ADULT FLOP AND DROP" ?? Say it ISN'T SOOOO!!!!!! "
He scores ! Man it's good when you accomplish what you set out too... Sorry to terrify you - my roommates ‘flop and drops’ are an adult version. She lowers head and sets her chin and refuses to move. Or she throws herself in seat and refuses to do move.
My wife and I were have a ‘discussion’ in the kitchen one time and my roommate in to ‘visit’ as she calls it. We already had trouble getting her to vacate a space ( in our faces all the time ) and we grittingly, sweetly asked her to leave the kitchen as we were having a private conversation ( we were surprised she couldn’t see that in the first place, or would want to be near us just then ) and she pulled out a chair, threw herself in it and said “I’m not going !”
We REALLY had been sweet, knowing how hard it was. We had to leave the the room - not too sweetly as you can imagine. But it was complete pointless power pull on us.
These days we’ve found if we do have to say, “okay if you won’t do ****, you can’t do ****” and she almost always loses out. Hours later she may say, “Okay, I’ll ***” it’s too late. Then she mumbles and whines about it, which we mostly ignore, to the best of our ability.
There usually are often little ‘cause and effect’ conversations later, but once her blood is up, she wants it her way, and she’ll ‘drop’. There, adult flop-n-drop. It’s only bad for your brain and heart, but not your back - Jeff
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Post by momofrussell on Apr 17, 2006 16:25:58 GMT -5
These days we’ve found if we do have to say, “okay if you won’t do ****, you can’t do ****” and she almost always loses out. Hours later she may say, “Okay, I’ll ***” it’s too late. Then she mumbles and whines about it, which we mostly ignore, to the best of our ability.
HEHEE... THIS.. .is my 13 yr old!!!!! LMAO! It's funny... we are SO cut and dry with her. But lately when we do the "if you don't do this, you don't get this"... she does loose out and she too comes back later and says.. "oh.. if I NOW do what you want, can I have so and so?"... UMMMM NOPE! LOL
A.
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Post by Alice on Apr 17, 2006 16:59:31 GMT -5
I could not avoid posting on this thread, Jessie. My personal view: we must teach our kids to understand the word "NO". It is very hard to make it understandable for child (or in some cases for adult) with DS, but we must try and work hard on that. We can not let them do what they want because of DS. Maybe Jeff's roommate was not taught in her childhood what is appropriate and what is not. Maybe I am wrong... If we let "normal" kids to do what ever they want to do, they will be doing that even at adulthood. So, lets try while they are kids.
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Post by hidyperson on Apr 17, 2006 17:40:02 GMT -5
Alice, I have a suspiction you're quite right about my roommate not being taught NO when she was little.
On the other hand, she shamelessly will not accept it.
She also goes on and on about things that other people are doing ( so and so is bowling this afternoon ) because she thinks they should be or have do so before. We try our hardest ( and will continue ) to be consitant, and clear. But I think there will always be a bit of disconnect for her concering her own actions - she's sort of exempt from the consequences of life. If she fails, she is picked back up again. It's a really we are stuck with. But she will still miss bowling if she ( does whatever ) ! - Jeff
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Post by myangelsaliandsadi on Apr 18, 2006 0:25:13 GMT -5
I am in that same boat, Ali just turned 3 in February. She is more than ready to potty train and sleep in a bed....but we have procrastinated on the potty training for numerous reasons. We are going to start working on it soon however. As far as sleeping in a crib, she stays in and doesn't climb out. She prefers it, and it is safer for now with her seizures. So we will keep doing that for a while.
Hopefully the potty training thing will go well...it will be frustrating to go back and forth between pull ups and underwear when she is seizing... we were hoping to have the seizures gone by now. But I am afraid if we wait any longer we won't be successful.
So, we will be embarking on that journey soon, I even found underwear that fit her!
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Post by andrewsmom on Apr 18, 2006 7:18:30 GMT -5
Ummmm Robin............"what'd ya mean "ADULT FLOP AND DROP" ?? Say it ISN'T SOOOO!!!!!! " Yeah.....I'm with you on that one! LOL! Really N O T looking forward to anything like this!
I've been trying to follow along with this thread. If I have misunderstood anyone's reply please let me know!! I think Jessie (please correct me if I'm wrong) you were asking if you should treat Jason like a typical 13 year old or treat him more on the level he is at. well. Andrew is only 2... and I KNOW I don't treat him like a typical 2 year old. I have 2 neices who are the same age and I watch as they are put into time out and as their parents "count to three" and I know this doesn't work with Andrew. I put him in "time out", which is the corner, and he just gives me a look like as if to say "hmmm...I wonder why I'm here. oh well...hey this wall is a pretty color". KWIM? I get no reaction what so ever! Oh... and counting to 3...ya right! I start counting...O N E ...Andrew holds up 1 finger....T W O ....Andrew is now in giggle mode...T H R E E ...now he's all excited and starts signing, GO GO GO!! I can't catch a break! What we have been doing lately is just stopping whatever the problem is at the moment. For ex, Andrew is hitting the TV with a toy. We take the toy away..period. If he is pulling his sister's hair, we tell him no, explain it hurts and then his sister leaves the room so he can't play with her anymore (or we remove him). I honestly don't have anything else I think we can do. Andrew is just not at all bothered by much, let me tell you! Now if I'm reading some posts correctly, the advice here is to try to stick with his actual age. But from posts like the "flop and drop" and others, we can't always follow that approach. I have a 14 year old and if he pulled a flop and drop on me I honestly don't know what I would do. I reason with him, but what if he isn't bothered by consequences. Or maybe doesn't "get it" until it's too late and then doesn't remember the feeling he had when the tantrum occured, so he will continue to throw these tantrums to let out his fustration, not realizing the consequence that occurs is because of his actual behavior durring this time...Does that make sense? I do like the picture idea. Then there is something that is BAM.. kind of right there at that instant, to show the result for his behavior right away while he is still fustrated and still having a particular feeling. No time for him to forget what he felt, or how he behaved. Hmmmm...where's my camera??? Think this will work on my DH too??? LOL!
-Trisha
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Post by hidyperson on Apr 18, 2006 9:57:50 GMT -5
"Or maybe doesn't "get it" until it's too late and then doesn't remember the feeling he had when the tantrum occured, so he will continue to throw these tantrums to let out his fustration, not realizing the consequence that occurs is because of his actual behavior durring this time...Does that make sense? "
I think this is what we've got, a serious ( hours ) time delay between the FIT and the brain kicking in. Sometimes she's her own worst enemy - Jeff ( who found her very flexable and easy going this morning I might add )
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Post by chasesmom on Apr 18, 2006 18:11:18 GMT -5
::)Whew to the adult version of flop and drop...I am thinking that is a good name for what Chase already does, so does this mean it isnt going to stop and I am doomed the rest of my life to deal with it? Sighhhhh, there is no moving this manchild once he gets into that mode. I dont know if I was babbling or not....but we do not treat Chase as a 13 year old, did I say that already? He is as far from a 13 year old as his 7 year old brother is from acting 16. Chase acts more like a hmmmmmm, I want to say 6 year old, but his brother Zach is more mature and comprehending then Chase is and has been for a couple of years. I think like others have said..... Chase is across the board when it comes to age in all different aspects, speech is higher, writing is almost non existant, behaviors are like that of a terrible 2 he is big into reading, more like that of a fourth grader, swims and eats out at restuarants and does the movies like that of a ten year old,do others see the same thing, a big fluctuation depending on the place and timeand thing they are doing? hugs, Robin
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Post by chasesmom on Apr 18, 2006 18:46:29 GMT -5
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR and speaking of age appropriate behaviors......... while I was here speaking of the little devil GRRRRRRRRRRR, he was in the bathtub, FLOODING MY ENTIRE BATHROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is SOOOOOOOO not what a 13 year old is suspose to do!!!!!!!! And when I said why did you do this, his response was a simple look in the eyes and he said "I dont know" GRRRRRRRRRRRRR, I am now going to be washing towels until midnight because it took everyone I had to mop up the two inches of water, why does he do this? ? Robin
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Post by momofrussell on Apr 18, 2006 19:30:26 GMT -5
OH NO ROBIN!!! LMBO!!!!! HEEHEE...... Trisha.. I think the concensus is... do what works best for your child and your family! heehee... or that is my consensus! And with any age... if there is a behavior that needs to be stopped.. then work to stop it A.
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